Jump to content

Hot topic #34: Duisburg No Collision Zone


Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Aek177 said:

 

It was not him that deleted the post.

 

As I said though, we don't have the capacity to just recruit people forever. We are looking to expand wherever appropriate and whenever we can manage such expansion. We aren't going to recruit if we cannot manage the size we have. I am not saying everything is 100% perfect, but we do what we can with what resources we can get.

 

 

still think it would be "nice" if he would apologise for that comment.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 241
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

In my opinion it does not work. Its a simulation server so why make a city NCZ, you might aswell make it arcade.. theres no simulation about it. I understand WHY you guys have done it howeve

Hello everyone!   We received many complaints and suggestions regarding the Duisburg area.   As you might have seen already, we made Duisburg city no-collision.  You can drive

Why do you need to do this action? because of people who doesn't know traffic rules. I personaly think that more  active moderators would scare of some of the trolls and not competent driver

Posted Images

3 minutes ago, Aek177 said:

 

It was not him that deleted the post.

 

As I said though, we don't have the capacity to just recruit people forever. We are looking to expand wherever appropriate and whenever we can manage such expansion. We aren't going to recruit if we cannot manage the size we have. I am not saying everything is 100% perfect, but we do what we can with what resources we can get.

 

 

Okay that's fair enough. I'm really grateful for your time and answers. It really means a lot that you are willing to spend your time explaining these things to us and being more transparent.

 

A lot of times we don't get any answers at all and just get scolded because players don't know behind the scene stuff so we shouldn't talk about it. Even if we just intend to help.

 

Again, thanks. ❤️

 

EDIT: ResTed this applies to you as well.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Kind regards,

StateCA

 

Driver for: Bruijn Logistics

Twitch.tv/TruckersMP_Official - Come say hi!

 

 Stream schedule | Rules | Knowledge Base | SupportFeedbackRecruitmentNews | Events | Staff team

 

*Views and opinions expressed are my own and do not represent anything or anyone else.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Aek177 said:

Unfortunately, not everyone has a Forum account so doing a poll there would not be fair or accurate.

 

Yeah which I understand and again I get that you're trying to make an improvement. 

 

But the poll would of still been a starting point and again would of mostly likly been spread around the discord's with how popular of a topic it would of been, at which point if people didn't have a forum account but wanted their voice to be heard, they would of created an account.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I am against making cities on a simulation server no collision, it removes the simulation aspect and might as well be arcade. Someone I believe said that Duisburg is hardly simulation now, slow moving traffic I would have thought to be one of the most accurate forms of simulation there is, we've all sat in rush hour traffic and traffic jams in real life. 90% of players entering Duisburg do so fully knowing of the risks that involves and it should remain their decision to make. 
 

There are steps that could be taken to make Duisburg an easier place to access and better increase the flow of traffic without the need for NCZ. Adding an extra fuel station opposite the one already just outside the city would mean much less traffic stopping in these areas to cut across the road into the singular fuel station. Having one more of everything (f7 and garage) would be beneficial and help spread people across the city more.
 

The addition of NCZ has also appeared to create a new issue on the border where no collision becomes collision. We've all seen how many incidents occur when two trucks leave industries at slow speed at the same time crashing into each other, what this does is replicate this issue but at much higher speed. There will be people unsure about when the NCZ ends, people trying to race through the NCZ and probably inevitably players who will wait just outside the NCZ wishing to be a nuisance.
 

On a side topic: 

The apology made by Aek for the comment a game moderator made labeling all players who drive the Calais - Duisburg road the same is a welcome one so thank you, but this is a problem that runs deep within your current game moderation team. I am currently awaiting an answer to feedback from the game moderation management team regarding another recent incident where a different game moderator has expressed these same incorrect views while conducting appeals.
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I've Read the Whole entire Topic, Everyone's Views and opinions. And Here's What I Think:

Yes There are Negatives and Positives to this, and If you Weigh up all of these Plus People opinions, you find that A lot of people aren't in favour of this. However I Personally Think this isn't such a bad idea, Because Having being a Member for 3 years on TMP I would Never go Duisburg, because of how chaotic it is. Having This NCZ enables Players to actually have a good chance to deliver jobs to that city, I even Took a drive Through it a hour or so ago, and I just "Zoomed" through with ease( and I dont mean Zoomed in a Reckless way).

I Will Agree with The People against it that Yes Effectively you have just moved the problem away from the F7 down the road, So I can Say thats a good counter argument.

In Regards to The comments of "Admins should work shifts" That's just yea..... A bit much staff members dedicate any time they have in doing there job so putting them on a "shift" wouldn't really be fair as they dont get paid for doing this.

Finally Id like to point out the Comment of The "labelling" Was a Bit of a Daft move on The Staff teams part, And yes While a GMM is apologising for what one of his/hers collage said, still doesn't change the fact that it was said and some people on certain teams think of players like this. At the End of the day TMP shouldn't be a massive Fighting ground between people, we should all take into account other peoples views and while we may think they are wrong, any horrible comment you may have should be kept to yourself.

Feel Free to pick My response apart but I'm Not against anyone that is on the opposite side to me because Like I mentioned above they have Very Good Counter evidence to show why this might/ Is a bad thing. ❤️

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well as a TMP Player for over 6 years with 0!! bans its nice to see i get tarnished with the same brush as the trolls who constantly cause issues. I respect that the Moderators job is a hard one but for a moderator to turn round and label everyone the same isn't on!! If it wasn't for the Wonderful VTC ive become part of i would have given up playing TMP years ago due to the minority who are hell bent on ruining the experience for the many who follow the rules and Drive through Calais, Dusiburg and C-D road without and issue.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to apologize how I said I would label everyone who drives in the C-D area the same and the comparison I used of moderating the area. I understand that many of you drive there just because there's a lot of traffic and you're more likely to see familiar faces. I loved that aspect of the road myself some years ago, but got frustrated of all the trouble there is and I doubt there's any other solution to them than the road no longer existing.

 

In my position I should be able to argue politely, not end up insulting anyone. In the end, the things should argue, not the people. I am genuinely sorry.

 

1 hour ago, StateCA (NL) said:

Why does recruiting more moderators not solve the issue of moderators spending a lot of time on appeals and their other activities? Why can't TMP recruit more moderators? Just why?

 

The problem is that we do not find new people that are a good fit to become a Game Moderator from an endless resource. Our community has a limited size, probably one-third of it doesn't meet the requirements, a fraction of the community leave an application during a recruitment and a fraction of those applications are good enough for the applicant to be considered to the role. You need to be able to speak decent English and ready to devote time for the project. You cannot have many punishments in your history, because how are you supposed to enforce the rules you were unable to follow yourself?

 

Even after someone is chosen to become a Game Moderator, down the line the path can get a dead-end due to failing the training, as you may have seen happen a few times, should you follow the team changes thread on our forums. Then out of those who get through the training, from being a Report Moderator to a Game Moderator, some quit in the matter of months after realizing it wasn't what they wanted or they do not have the time it takes. If we have, for example, 10 new people taken in from a recruitment, it can be that only half of them are left after couple of months. If we were to loosen the requirements, it would probably just lead to more of them being removed from the team or leaving in the matter of months from being recruited.

 

Then there are of course long time team members leaving as well. Yet somehow we have managed to keep a slow growth in the size of the Game Moderation Team the past few years. I just highly doubt there's a way to increase the pace of the growth, not without setbacks.

  • Like 1

 

Ready to go!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest stormgamingofficial

see that's truckersmp using there head where the most truckers are there should be a NCZ and Duisburg is one of them makes it a little more speedy for players not having to wait in traffic and fearing of getting rammed and less work for the mods having to ban multiple people in Duisburg that are ramming and causing havoc 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Duisburg was fine the way it was, with patience you could get through there no problem, alot of players like the traffic, they go there specifically because of the traffic and chaos. Yes there are trolls and people who cause problems but they will never just go away no matter what is done, they can be reported and banned.

The biggest problem with Duisburg was the service station and everyone trying to get out of it at the same time which blocked the road up and then that caused players to choose to drive the wrong way to get out of there and then that blocked up that intersection but this is a problem that has always existed, back in the days of Europort that problem was at Rotterdam service station and now that problem has been just moved to the entrance to the city.

Sim changes changed noting with C-D as its now the same just at slower speed and this wont change Duisburg it just moves it. I understand the reason for this and can understand both sides but if you do not like Duisburg or C-D you don't really have to go there, its only one place on a big map. I will never understand people who complain about an area and don't like it yet go there all the time and the trolls will always find somewhere else to troll.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
  • Love it! 2

9b3f0e1f6c.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

The addition is well created. Unfortunately, there will be people who abuse good things because there are people who hate to see people succeed in creating good things. However, if you can get past that and stop the abusers, this can be curbed. I saw someone mention a speed limiter for the entirety of the road - I agree, that could help. In the TMP Discord, the topic was brought up of a NCZ zone for the entirety of the road as well. I disagree with that as that's not going to help with much other than make it a semi-arcade server, just region-locked to a certain area. I personally haven't went there just yet, nor do I plan on it at the moment, however from reading some comments I have come to the conclusion that it is 50/50. I think a few additions and improvements can go a long way with this. Overall, it's an excellent starting point. Great work. 

xBestBBx

Community Moderator (Forums)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest stormgamingofficial
8 hours ago, Courtz49 said:

In my opinion it does not work.

Its a simulation server so why make a city NCZ, you might aswell make it arcade.. theres no simulation about it.

I understand WHY you guys have done it however trucks are STILL fighting to get out the NCZ zone and causing damage to those driving nicely.

Its not Duisburg that is the issue. Its the players. Making a city NCZ is not going to magically make players drive nicely.

They need to be punished and not the entire server / good drivers too be punished for it. People can not follow road rules such as traffic lights and give ways. Thats on them not the sensible drivers. 

They will most likely now cluster dusseldorf or another nearby city instead.

I hope that this choice is only temporary and not forever and fingers crossed the new rework on duisburg will make it better. 

 

I get that this area was where most reports were coming from but I honestly do not think it works.

what i dont get is how people dont drive normally in the first place this may have not happend if they would drive like they would in real life if it helps the mods and staff its good because they probably handle more reports in Duisburg than they do on the rest of the map and it just probably gets tiering handling reports in the same place all the time when they could go handle reports from differnt spots on the map   

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Luna unpinned this topic

So right now it's very unclear where the collision zone starts/ends. I would like to have something like a warning sign or something similar to make that clear and seeable.

Also, it would be great if we could get a "smoother" transition from no collision to collision. I know it may sound strange, but there are still a lot of crashes due to the fast transition from no collision to collision + no warning. 

 

I haven't been in Duisburg much, but other cities are becoming more popular now. As you can clearly see on Düsseldorf. They are close to 100 players a day now too. 
I absolutely agree with courtz populare post. I see why the NCZ came, but I can not understand it because we have rules that everyone must follow. Duisburg feels like an arcade city now, a bit sad because we said "road to simulation". 

 ᗪEᑕEᗰᗷEᖇ 25, 2020 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Courtz49 said:

In my opinion it does not work.

Its a simulation server so why make a city NCZ, you might aswell make it arcade.. theres no simulation about it.

I understand WHY you guys have done it however trucks are STILL fighting to get out the NCZ zone and causing damage to those driving nicely.

Its not Duisburg that is the issue. Its the players. Making a city NCZ is not going to magically make players drive nicely.

They need to be punished and not the entire server / good drivers too be punished for it. People can not follow road rules such as traffic lights and give ways. Thats on them not the sensible drivers. 

They will most likely now cluster dusseldorf or another nearby city instead.

I hope that this choice is only temporary and not forever and fingers crossed the new rework on duisburg will make it better. 

 

I get that this area was where most reports were coming from but I honestly do not think it works.

100% agreed.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DerAmpelmann said:

CD alanında çalışan herkesi aynı şekilde etiketleyeceğimi ve alanı denetlemek için kullandığım karşılaştırmayı söylediğim için özür dilemek istiyorum. Birçoğunuzun oraya arabayla gittiğini anlıyorum çünkü çok fazla trafik var ve tanıdık yüzler görme olasılığınız daha yüksek. Birkaç yıl önce yolun bu yönünü kendim de sevdim, ancak tüm sorunlardan hüsrana uğradım ve artık mevcut olmayan yol dışında başka bir çözüm olduğundan şüpheliyim.

 

Benim durumumda, kibarca tartışabilmeliyim, sonunda kimseye hakaret etmiyorum. Sonunda insanlar değil, şeyler tartışmalı. Gerçekten üzgünüm

 

 

Sorun şu ki, sonsuz bir kaynaktan Oyun Moderatörü olmaya uygun yeni insanlar bulamıyoruz. Topluluğumuzun sınırlı bir boyutu var, muhtemelen üçte biri gereksinimleri karşılamıyor, topluluğun bir kısmı işe alım sırasında başvurudan ayrılıyor ve bu başvuruların bir kısmı başvuru sahibinin rolü üstlenmesi için yeterince iyi. İyi derecede İngilizce konuşabilmeniz ve proje için zaman ayırmaya hazır olmanız gerekir. Tarihinizde çok fazla ceza olamaz, çünkü kendi kendinize uyamadığınız kuralları nasıl uygulayacaksınız?

 

Birisi Oyun Moderatörü olarak seçildikten sonra bile, forumlarımızdaki takım değişiklikleri başlığını takip etmeniz durumunda, birkaç kez görmüş olabileceğiniz gibi, eğitimin başarısız olması nedeniyle yolun sonunda bir çıkmaz olabilir. Daha sonra, Rapor Moderatörlüğü'nden Oyun Moderatörlüğüne kadar eğitimden geçenlerin bir kısmı, istedikleri şey olmadığını ya da gereken zamanı bulamadıklarını fark ettikten sonra aylar içinde işi bıraktılar. Örneğin, bir işe alımdan 10 yeni insan aldıysak, birkaç ay sonra sadece yarısı kalmış olabilir. Gereksinimleri gevşetecek olsaydık, muhtemelen daha fazlasının takımdan çıkarılmasına veya aylar içinde işe alınmalarından ayrılmasına yol açar.

 

Sonra elbette uzun süredir ekip üyeleri de ayrılıyor. Yine de, geçtiğimiz birkaç yılda Oyun Moderasyon Ekibinin boyutunda yavaş bir büyüme sağlamayı başardık. Büyüme hızını artırmanın bir yolu olduğundan şüpheliyim, aksaklıklar olmadan değil.

 

Apologizing is a virtue. Congratulations.

  • Haha 1

🖐️Her zaman bir umut vardır .🖐️

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, MrSirViking said:

 

See the issue here is that Duisburg never really was simulation. The idea of simulation is to have it as close to real life as possible. And Duisburg never was that. I bet you that real life Duisburg have never had this kind of traffic. And they never had people just overtaking and ramming people in the city. Or people running red lights. Not this amount anyway. Duisburg was never simulation, it was just craziness. And now hopefully a lot of the reports coming from Duisburg will be a lot less. And make life a little bit easier on the moderators. Cause you will know this. We simply cant watch Duisburg 24/7 so we cant keep it clear and good for people to drive in. So we have to do something about it. And this seems like a good solution. At least for now.

 

Red light runners are a homemade problem of TruckersMP.

The wishy-washy definition of the term "immediate area" which is supposed to set the boundary of running a red light opens the gates wide to all reckless players.
I strongly suggest to forbid running red lights at all and to punish a violation by automatically kick the perpetrator from the server plus impose a 3 day ban.

 

But that again violates the idea of simulation, I guess.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Dylan.C said:

What your doing is  fixing one probem and creating 6 more probems as people said above people are abusing it and creating allready more work for the admins as its a popular area no matter what you do dusburg will allways be bussy so you made more problems not fixing them 

 

If it creates more problems than it is worth, we will review it and make appropriate changes. Nothing is set in stone and we will keep monitoring and doing our best to make this area better for everyone.

 

6 hours ago, maksch said:

So right now it's very unclear where the collision zone starts/ends. I would like to have something like a warning sign or something similar to make that clear and seeable.

Also, it would be great if we could get a "smoother" transition from no collision to collision. I know it may sound strange, but there are still a lot of crashes due to the fast transition from no collision to collision + no warning. 

 

I haven't been in Duisburg much, but other cities are becoming more popular now. As you can clearly see on Düsseldorf. They are close to 100 players a day now too. 
I absolutely agree with courtz populare post. I see why the NCZ came, but I can not understand it because we have rules that everyone must follow. Duisburg feels like an arcade city now, a bit sad because we said "road to simulation". 

 

There will of course be improvements to the area in time to try and improve upon this. Whilst some may feel this isn't along the "Road to Simulation" idea, we cannot keep having our staff put time into something that will make an impact for only a short period of time. The problem with Duisburg and that general area is that we moderate it, go away and within 1 minute it has gone back to chaos. We cannot have our staff continuously moderate something like this, they have much more productive things they can be doing really. I am not having a dig at anyone who drives in this area, but please understand our efforts can honestly be better spent elsewhere rather than in this area.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, maksch said:

So right now it's very unclear where the collision zone starts/ends. I would like to have something like a warning sign or something similar to make that clear and seeable.

Also, it would be great if we could get a "smoother" transition from no collision to collision. I know it may sound strange, but there are still a lot of crashes due to the fast transition from no collision to collision + no warning.

Sadly I do not think a sign is going to work. Because we are talking about players who ran the red light as well and caused chaos. They probably wont even pay attention to signs next to the road, or warnings on their screen.

 

Making the city arcade isn't something that should belong on the simulator servers, in my opinion. But if TMP insists on using NCZ to reduce reports then their best option is probably extending NCZ to the gas station, and forcing people with barriers or gates to leave the gas station 1 by 1 as they leave NCZ. So they can't leave it while inside of each other.

 

EDIT: Now that I think about it maybe gates don't work either because they just recently synced them for all players xd.

 

Maybe a poll and asking the playerbase choices on how to handle Duisburg can be a nice idea. I know Aek mentioned that it wouldn't be fair because not all players have a forum account. But that didn't stop TMP from having polls on Instagram and Twitter. It seems like their OWN forum is the only place that DIDN'T get to vote about the matter...

  • Upvote 1
  • True Story 1

Kind regards,

StateCA

 

Driver for: Bruijn Logistics

Twitch.tv/TruckersMP_Official - Come say hi!

 

 Stream schedule | Rules | Knowledge Base | SupportFeedbackRecruitmentNews | Events | Staff team

 

*Views and opinions expressed are my own and do not represent anything or anyone else.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's good that you guys are looking for possible solutions to fix duisburg, but in my eyes this isn't a good way on how to handle it.

Making it NCZ still causes many problems and ruins the simulation aspect. It also could be the case that people will just going to a anoter city nearby.

 

Of course it's great that TruckersMP tries to fix this problem tho. I'm sure a good solution will be found! 🙌

 

Best Regards.

 

Zysto

Have a nice day!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly, I think the unique problem that is Duisburg will always be hard to cure, and many potential solutions that get implemented just have a knock on effect somewhere else.

 

My personal suggestion would be to change the traffic light timings on the central junction in Duisburg, as this area is the heart of the gridlock due to drivers coming out of the F7. Currently, these lights have a sequence as per the standard SCS base game cities, and therefore the green light duration can be quite short. A proposal here could be a similar timing sequence to the light outside of Duisburg that TMP added, which has a much longer green than any of the other lights in the standard base game. This could allow a large traffic to clear the F7 at one time, which would prevent people stacking up outside the entrance and blocking anyone trying to enter. The other idea could be the addition of a left filter light for the F7/tunnel sides, which could enable traffic from the F7 to head out of Duisburg on the peak route more easily. Of course, there will always be people that ignore the lights, which no one can do anything about.

 

My other idea is to implement what we call "box junctions" in the UK, essentially areas with a yellow hashed line, in which stopping on is illegal. If correctly obeyed, this would stop traffic getting boxed in and trapped on the central junction in Duisburg, which is the main cause of jams in the area. Perhaps if GMs are in the area, then a no nonsense rule of anyone stopping on such a junction without room to exit it being teleported could also be added? This could potentially be hard to police though, and could also provoke complaints being made against staff.

 

This system, if successful, could be expanded to other areas of the map, like junctions on the CD road, busier cites on Sim servers, or even up at Kirkenes on Promods. Awareness of these junctions and their meaning could be added to the TMP knowledge base, much like the recent "Smart Motorway" signs that were put on last year.

 

If the current idea of a total NCZ in Duisburg is maintained permanently, and once awareness of it spreads, then I feel that traffic will just head to the neighbouring cites of Düsseldorf and Köln instead, which are already reasonably busy. I also note that according to statistics, Amsterdam seems to have got busier this weekend too. This could be a coincidence, but also a sign that maybe people are starting to head elsewhere already....

  • Upvote 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Question should be "Why do people congregate at Calais & Duisberg and travel the C-D Road"?

It's because that's where everyone is. It's possibly the only area on the map that you are guaranteed to meet people in the Servers.  
In ProMods its the Kirkenes Quarry road. Why? because that's where everyone is.

Are there too many people there? Yes
Should there be a restriction on where you can drive because of number of people? No.
If you sterilise those areas with Non collision zones, eventually there will be a new C-D Road, because those areas will no longer be 'fun' for those that choose to go there.

I'm sorry to say, but in my opinion the only way to 'fix' the area is to have improved game moderation in the areas where the most people are.
The area has been the same for Years. if  Moderators don't want to take a shift moderating the areas of heavy traffic, then maybe they shouldn't be a moderator.
If that means TMP recruiting staff specifically for areas like C-D Road & Kirkenes then that's what they should do.

By knowing those areas are under constant supervision, might mean that people are more patient, they might not make as many dangerous overtakes, and may even make some of them slow down a little, because a Kick or Ban will be a certainty not a 'roll of the dice' as it is currently.

Maybe another solution to the problem could be to finally fix the in game reporting system? I guess caravans were a higher priority to have.
TMP can't /fix their way out of this problem.

  • Upvote 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Luna locked and unfeatured this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...