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Guest Averazon

Reporting - Does it happen too quick?

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Guest Averazon

Hello everyone!

 

I was recently following some topics about people recording and reporting. I often see that people get annoyed on both sides. That is why I am making this topic to get a better understanding. ATS is calmer on this side so it mostly covers ETS.

 

Personally I feel like reporting has a good and bad side. But looking at it, this is the same. You can easily report people for breaking rules and with no effort get them banned. Good thing right? Keeps the server clean? Well fair enough, you have a point.

 

But you forget about something. I always feel the need to reach out to people. Some people say sorry and others will ignore you and drive away. In the case that someone drives away and doesn't care.. report them. But I often see small incidents which had no bad intention. Those people apologize and get reported anyway? Some people record to record and want people to get banned.

I feel like there could be more rules in place or atleast a more mature approach to trying to solve a problem. I have learned it is more rewarding to talk and make someone see what they did wrong instead of banning and having | Break rule - record - ban - repeat | But this might be my idea? I could be very wrong too?

 

I have seen people with very different opinions. Some people agree with me and others would love to be able and ban them themselves. I am not here to judge anyone by his or her opinion, I just wanna find out what you all think about this :D

 

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I understand what are you trying to say, there're lots of players who write sorry after an accident but the worst thing is that you don't know if the person is doing that lots of times, I mean this could happen with everyone once, but what about players who ram lots of drivers and then just type "sorry" after every accident, they should not be reported? Or how can you understand that's his first time or he's doing that every time? I personally never forgive people for creating big accidents or driving dangerous, even if they write sorry in the chat as this sorry doesn't mean anything, they just write it to don't get a ban as people think that if you write sorry then you're a good boy and you don't deserve a ban.

 

I had several times some accidents which were caused just because of me and someone else going in front of me but that's still my bad and when I crashed I added that person on the steam and talked to him, described the situation and we both just had a nice talk then, so that's what I think the person should do when he is ramming someone, not like "oh sorry please, don't report, sorry" and then drive and repeat same after another crash.

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29 minutes ago, Averazon said:

Hello everyone!

 

I was recently following some topics about people recording and reporting. I often see that people get annoyed on both sides. That is why I am making this topic to get a better understanding. ATS is calmer on this side so it mostly covers ETS.

 

Personally I feel like reporting has a good and bad side. But looking at it, this is the same. You can easily report people for breaking rules and with no effort get them banned. Good thing right? Keeps the server clean? Well fair enough, you have a point.

 

But you forget about something. I always feel the need to reach out to people. Some people say sorry and others will ignore you and drive away. In the case that someone drives away and doesn't care.. report them. But I often see small incidents which had no bad intention. Those people apologize and get reported anyway? Some people record to record and want people to get banned.

I feel like there could be more rules in place or atleast a more mature approach to trying to solve a problem. I have learned it is more rewarding to talk and make someone see what they did wrong instead of banning and having | Break rule - record - ban - repeat | But this might be my idea? I could be very wrong too?

 

I have seen people with very different opinions. Some people agree with me and others would love to be able and ban them themselves. I am not here to judge anyone by his or her opinion, I just wanna find out what you all think about this :D

 


Well there's a few things here that could be said about it.

Firstly, I do agree here that giving chances is alright. When it comes to someone maliciously breaking the rules, no, I will just report them. But if the person makes an attempt to apologise I'll let it slip. However, I have tried reaching out to others before to maybe educate the player or resolve the issue. 9 times out of 10 I am either ignored or insulted further.

Secondly, Game Moderators really should be processing reports on a basis where if the rule was broken as an accident then maybe some kind of warning system could be made to warn rather than ban, I would hope that people are only getting banned for intentional/malicious rule breaking. 

Thirdly, I would also add that the appeal system exists for this reason, There are people who report maliciously too. Constantly driving up and down CD and reporting everything. TruckersMP has processes for this. report spamming could end your self being banned from reporting. However, banned players can also appeal their ban and apologise for what happened. I have seen cases before where bans were removed or shortened because the banned player explained the situation and it became clear it was a pure accident. 

The system could so with some improvement I think. But things like this could be included in the next quarter of the TruckersMP satisfaction survey and in threads like this.

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Personally i rarely report people unless its extremely obvious that they are trolling.

 

But some people drive around busy areas for the simple purpose of finding people to report for something, anything.  Why? I have no idea, but its a fact - You can see it yourself on many Streams and Youtube channels - Aswell as Daily on the discord the question pops up " can i report XX For this?? "    Which is just silly.

 

The answer to the topic is absolutely yes, People are way too Quick to report for no apparent reason.

 

Example: People going 150 down the 70 road, hitting someone who pulls out of a side road and reports them (????) I mean, come on.

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I tend to agree with the OP. I see loads of bumps and crashes every time I play. Most result in someone shouting over the mic or some abusive comment on the chat.

 

I think what a lot of people forget is that this is a game. Its not real life. As with any game, people will make an error. I cant think of one game that ive played where I haven’t done something stupid that I regretted later. Eg, fall of a cliff, run onto a powerful mob, pressed the wrong button etc. The difference on those is that you don’t get people acting like they are perfect and blasting you for it. With TMP its too easy to rant at someone and then report them. This also creates work for the mods

 

Don’t get me wrong, half the time you see some crazy driver for example - going way too fast, who overshoots a junction and still tries to make the turn but ends up crashing and blocking the road or worse, running into someone. Purposeful carelessness should be reported but I like to think people should stop and pause for second and think was that just a simple error or was the person being a douchbag and being selfish or disrespectful to other gamers. The latter I report, the former I just get one with my day.

 

Maybe before you report anyone, stop and think – have I made an errors today…..

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Guest S̶ ̶p̶ ̶a̶ ̶r̶ ̶k̶ ̶i̶ ̶e̶

Most players report too quickly, I usually try to give them a minute or two to maybe explain what happened and say sorry or at least show some level of sorriness.

Theres also a lot of incidents where you really should only give them the benefit of the doubt.

You can never be too quick to record something though, because its safer to be on the side where you can't be at fault if someone else records the incident and it looks like you caused it.

Of course, some people have clear intent just to ram people or troll people. Others its not so obvious, but most of the situations I encounter involve usually someone starting to overtake, finding they don't have enough room, and then trying to cut back in not to cause a crash. Alot of the time theres not enough room to cut back in, but they turn on their blinker and start to slowly drift over to let you know they have to get back in the lane. Them ramming their way into the lane is what draws the line between intentional/not caring and at least trying to avoid crashes and trying to be respectful.

Of course thats not to say I haven't made bad choices in the past, but I don't hide behind a privacy wall just to "put away" my previous mistakes like some people do. Privacy is fine, but accepting your mistakes is more important.

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Guest Averazon

Happy to see people getting involved! Thank you for replying :) As some of you mentioned, I am not talking about the trolls or people that imagne their truck being a rocket or weapon lol. I am mostly talking about the people who are more serious or of which you can see that they aren't the average troll. Steam is indeed a beautiful way to communicate and the appeals also help. Although appeals or basically after the case I am presenting.

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I haven't played that much, really, but I believe the system is good. It works. Game Mods will review the demo and do what they think is best, with a mature approach like you said.

Communication-wise, it is always a good idea. When it works, it feels good but it doesn't always. We're humans and we react in many different ways, even while playing games. And even then, you know how many languages are being spoken in-game... You can always give it a try, but it won't be easy.

 

So if your aim is to make players change their minds even a little bit, and think before they do something that can't be undone, forcing rules is not the way to go, imho.

However I will follow your initiative and try to be more talkative... with the tools at my disposal, at least until they answer.

 

If IRL, after so many mirrors crashed and fights I had to learn how to be more tolerant before I ended up in the hospital or even dead, I think I can do it in a game :P

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My personal opinion:
 

You can report someone who intentionally makes an accident and not someone who accidentally causes an accident.

It can happen to anyone who causes an accident, but they can hardly see through the video whether it is accidental or not.

 

Watch a reported (video) with more details, for example if he has not used the brake lights then you know that it has done on purpose.

 

I do not know which admin tool ets2mp have. but if the person has done it accidentally or on purpose they can still see how often he is reported.

If ets2mp do not have the record of a report, then it would be very useful to know whether that person is doing it on purpose or not.

 

Hopefully you do not understand me wrong, you are doing a good job as staff members, keep it up!

Hopefully a accident can be investigated by someone doing it on purpose or not, by some new admin tool...

 

Best regards & drive safe :) 

-Kuukimunster

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From my experience, the majority of incidents that I innocently got involved in were caused by reckless driving. 

All of these were reported by me and all of them received a ban. 

Sadly, only few incidents were caused by careless driving, which I usually do not report.

 

I must assume that as a reckless player does not care much about anybody else but himself/ herself, he/ she would not care much about an educational conversation neither.

So if a reckless driver ruins my gameplay, I will report him.

 

Real life shows that these kind of drivers do not learn from financial penalties, but only by driving bans. And the latter stays true also for multiplayer.

At first they will be upset, but after some hours or days of being banned most of them will start to think. About what, how and why it has happened. That is the moment were the learning effect kicks in.

 

So does reporting happen too quick?

In light of what i wrote before I think that it does not.

As a matter if fact it is the most effective way to sensitize players for mutual respect and a more defensive driving behaviour. And unless TruckersMP offers educational classes in which all members can learn about common sense and basic road traffic rules, the report system is the only way to give them a wake-up call before they get banned from the game for good.

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Well, I agree whit you, kinda. Yea there are people who say sorry, but they could troll.. it is very difficult to know if they really mean thath sorry. if there Just could be a chance to see how much damage they have got in past 2h or so. or just h.

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The reason why everyone is doing "Recording" in their name and actualling saying to you "REC BAN" is because the server rules are extremely heavy-handed. Every collision in ETS2MP is bannable according to Rule 2.2: "

§2.2 - Ramming*

Causing a collision with another player intentionally or due to negligence. Attempting to cause a collision by steering towards their vehicle." There is no room for "accidents" or for people to apologize or be a good sport. If you are recorded and reported for a minor infraction, you will probably get banned. Many people love this rule and simply play to make it a living hell for us relaxed players. If the rule was eased and the enforcement made less heavy handed, you will see way less people becoming spies for the mod team, who dont need to be spammed with every single collision report because  we players always deal with them ourselves without seeking to end the gametime of another person. If they allow truck collisions to be disabled, it would be another way to avoid people getting banned. But as it stands, the draconian rule needs to be revised and allow for more freedom and remove power from the record/ban club.

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I personally only report people if it is obvious that the trucker caused the collision or any form of accident deliberately. However, every player is also a human and can mistakes, which weren't intentionally made, so I report players only if I am 100% sure :) 

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Hello!

I don't want to ban everyone. Some of them are doing reckless driving, and if they don't hurt me too much, I won't banned him. Or a player reckless overtake, if he didn't hurt anyone, I wouldn't forbid him. When a player hits me, he says "sorry" or "very sorry" and sometimes I forgive them. Banned people is not the solution. It is the best solution to tell them what they're doing wrong or their mistakes.

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I report players only when its blatantly obvious they were griefing. The guys with atrocious ping, or that yeet off a barrier, or give a love tap because they hit the brakes too late arent a problem. But the guys that block all lanes with a trailer, or ram you without merging, cut me off in a city turn, or drive the wrong way usually get in-game reported and depending on the severity get clipped and reported on the site.

That said, I feel reporting is generally a waste of time with the event going on now. Everybody reporting for little stuff is flooding the report system. Even site reports arent being responded to.

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Yep. You're very right.

 

In my opinion, if the player says sorry and stuff, you know they didn't meant to crash into you. But if someone ignores you, insults you, or just drives away, it's probably a rule breaker.

 

But sadly, we won't achieve this...

 

I'm only reporting people intentionally ramming those who rage / insult after ramming,... or those who are just cheating

People, rear-ending me or stuff isn't bannable afaik.. But most people don't care, as nobody has ultimate brakes.

And people saying sorry and stuff understand, that it was their mistake and it was not meant to be intentionally.

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This is a great topic! I don't play much ETS for the exact reasons that this topic covers. But when I'm play ATS, the only reason I use the report system is if what they did was intentional or when the safety of others may be at risk. For example, there was this guy that came onto the interstate and decided to make a U-turn at the bottom of the ram to go south on the northbound lanes... The risk of him hitting someone is 200% higher.. If he was dumb enough to do that... only God knows what he was planning to do.. Now if you crash into me by mistake... that's a different story. I usually let those slide, unless, you do it more then once. I kind of know and understand what the Game Mods go through and don't want to make them do extra work over little stupid things... their job is hard enough already. The only thing that I'm not sure of when it comes to Game mods is if they have the ability to look at the ban history of players. If so, I think that should play a major role in the deciding factor of banning a player. Are they a repeat offender? 

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Guest Tristan [FR]

Hello all ! 

Of course, everyone has the right to make mistakes, I totally agree with you. People should take the time to analyze the situation before judging or reporting, but I fully understand the fact that it's quite difficult sometimes to know if it's a troll or not. Of course, there are normal players that ram you by mistake and apologize. However, some people probably "abuse" if I can say that of the report system. Also, even if bad drivers are banned by breaking the rules don't forget people that it's only a game ;) 

Thanks for that topic :) 

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My main issue with the reporting system is all the people who feel the need to announce their intention to report someone to the world. Nobody cares, stop doing it. If someone's caused you a reason to report them, just get on with it and keep quiet; the chat doesn't need to be flooded with "XXXX rec!".

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I think what you're asking for is a change in mentality, not necessarily for a change in the system. I'm not part of the moderation team - obviously - but I'm fairly sure they can tell the difference between an accident and an intentional crash. There are a lot of subtle hints, like the driver trying to slow down or veer out of the way right before it happens. That's the biggest difference between someone that makes a mistake and someone that's trying to intentionally ruin other people's experiences. I'm confident that the moderation team is appropriately trained for this and has a good eye to catch such hints.

 

I have to say though, your statement that you should try to communicate to the other player after a crash is a good one. Personally I've had several crashes - some my own fault, some caused by another user - and I've pretty much never actually put down my controller to type something in chat to them, like a quick apology or an inquiry to their actions. I think I might give it a shot next time - can't hurt anyways.

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There's been a couple of times I've let it slip away, either because the person was trying to avoid a wreck, or corrected himself after nearly hitting me, and other reasons that escaped from my memory. Also I've seen a few times where the user said "sorry", but it was obvious he did it on purpose to a couple trucks and was driving very recklessly. Sometimes I stop and ask to myself, is it really worth reporting for X reason? But yeah, it really depends on the situation. Heck one time I've became friend with someone who was incoming and swerved right in my face and made me fly, and someone who overtook me while an oncoming truck suddenly appeared very close and caused a nasty collision.

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