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Ways to improve reporting system to reduce toxicity?


victorleung070
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Recently, the tmp official has stated that report spam in high density area may result in the removal of reporting right. However, I do not believe banning people reporting is good way to reduce toxicity. I will explain why in the following. 

 

Before going into the discussion, I do appreciate the effort of officials to handle tons of report every day. They really do a great job in maintaing the game environment. However, I want to ask what is the definition of report spam. I know some of the players report everything they saw, such as reporting players parking at the road side, reporting every players overtaking but causes no accident. This is definitly report spam. However, if a player being crashed and report, is it considered a report spam? If a player play CD road every day and report every reasonable accidents, is it a report spam? The official should make a clear definition on what is spam. 

 

Back into the discussion, I believe if the official consider report spam as 'reporting every reasonable accident in high densely populated area', it does not help reducing the toxicity. One of the main reasons of players playing MP is to enjoy trucking with each others. It is normal to have tons of player gathering together in a road. Playing CD road solely is reasonable in some of the player mind. Though the official encourages players to truck in other area, rarely can players seeing other in highway or other road. If players cannot gather, why not play singleplayer. Also, even if CD road is closed, people will always find an alternative. If report is not allowed from high density area, it will absolutly increase the toxicity.

 

Use an imagining situation as an example, When a player is being crashed, he must feel so angry and sad if he did nothing wrong. In this circumstance, reporting system is the only way of him to send the troll to justice. However, If he reported the accident and considered report spam, he might take revenge on the trolls, such as crashing the troll, overtaking and stop suddenly in front of the troll. It will definitly causing more accident. We can see that considering report spam as reporting players is not a good way to solve toxicity. Instead, it causes more trolling behavior. I think the TMP official should really make a clear definition on report spam. 

 

Of.course, if the definition of report spam is not 'reporting every reasonae accident in highly congested area', the above isn't a problem 🙂

 

Here is my suggestion on improving the report system. 

 

Firstly, defining report spam is absolutly important. I believe that reporting players in high density area reasonably is not a problem. Trolls will always cause an accident as they have a poor driving attitude. Even they are not reported in CD road, they may cause trouble in other roads. As mentioned the above, defining report spam as reporting every reasonable accident in high density area is not feasible and effective. I believe the definition of report spam need to be clearly defined. 

 

Secondly, in resulting an accident, the victims do have some responsibility if they do not attempt to avoid an accident. In real life, if a driver does not attempt the avoid an accident, both the victim and the 'crasher' have responsibilities. They may be send to court and receiving penalty. I think this can be implemented to the reporting system. If the player reporting does not showing the sense of defensive driving, such as driving 80 but accelerate when seeing someone overtake them. These players are also causing an accident. They should be penalized too.

 

Thank you for reading soooooo long. Please feel free to give any opinion 🙂

 

 

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I'd say that driving all of the time in the same area, which is well known for the amount of "Idiots on the road" that seem to "live" there is not reasonable. Yes, I understand that if one of them crashes your vehicle they should be reported, but everyone with more than 1 month in MP knows that it's almost impossible to drive on that road/area without being crashed. So whoever goes there every day should know what to expect. If still they decide to report all other players who crash them, I'd personally consider that as "Spam". Not that all players go there looking for others to report (there are "report-hunters", BTW), but like you mention in your text, they are doing nothing to avoid a dangerous situation, so they are also to blame when bad things happen. So... "They should be penalized too".

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It's funny how many people's first posts are related to this "one" road.  It's understandable why it has been "chosen" for what it has become, provided the base game's full price is around 20€ nowadays and less than 5€ on sales.

But don't think that trolling and bad driving is isolated to just this area, anywhere on the base map you are in the high risk zone, and even paid dlc expansions are not free of these problems. Just look at the Promods server, if you want to play there you have to purchase a lot of dlc, yet 3/4 of the server's population congregate around a single road and nearby town.

I'm saddened by this when there's so much more to have fun, even better on Promods, but also relieved at the same time that it keeps the worst kind away in the small area which I can simply avoid.

In my opinion all these new changes to the report system and the rules are strongly related to this and reports from this area are main reason why report system is so overwhelmed, so these changes are absolutely needed.

 

You should read the rules and learn what is and what isn't against the rules, while driving use some common sense and a little more of courtesy and less overconfidence wont' hurt either. If you you report someone and the moderator thinks you were also responsible for whatever reason, recklesness, speeding, baiting, steering towards reported user or not making any effort to prevent the accident, your report can be declined, and in the worst case you can also be banned yourself by your own evidence. So, in this regard, what you are suggesting is already implemented in the rules. I don't envy moderator who has to deal with that kind of evidence and is expected to make the right judgement.

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The report system is overloaded, because some players report every single incident.

But not all incidents are worth reporting. All players should check this BEFORE sending a report.

An example would be if none of the involved parties was harmed.

 

If we, the players, reduce the number of reports to the ones which are really necessary, the report system will work more efficiently and faster.

This in return will reduce toxicity faster and improve our all game experience.

 

#thinkbeforeyoureport

 

 

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As someone who use to host various game servers and was Admin on many others, ill give you a point of view most players dont understand. Most of the reports on TMP are little petty things that shouldn't be reported at all, like accidentally wrong way driving(player did not intentionally try to run into other players, why report it?) red light ignoring... Most interjections are closed and stopping at those interjections on both lanes causes useless traffic hold up, accidental head on crash... If i count all the times people run into me and i have also had couple of those, usually i and others apologize and thats it, no need to report it. I dont know what kind of reports are ignored or not as i dont know the rules and expectations for TMP GM,s but trust me if i say that real problems will be resolved sooner or later.For last, banning players for every little mistake will guarantee empty servers, trust me on that.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, kultrex said:

red light ignoring..

Ignoring a red light isn't a violation of the rules and won't be punished, unless the perpetrator caused an accident. This also applies to driving at excessive speed.

 

14 minutes ago, kultrex said:

For last, banning players for every little mistake will guarantee empty servers, trust me on that.

It'll take a lot more reports and bans until this happens.

Last time I checked, the servers were well populated though the map was deserted (except of certain infamous areas).

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1 hour ago, blabberbeak said:

The report system is overloaded, because some players report every single incident.

But not all incidents are worth reporting. All players should check this BEFORE sending a report.

An example would be if none of the involved parties was harmed.

 

If we, the players, reduce the number of reports to the ones which are really necessary, the report system will work more efficiently and faster.

This in return will reduce toxicity faster and improve our all game experience.

 

#thinkbeforeyoureport

 

 

I very much agree. There are a few YouTube channels that are those kind of people, and most of the time it doesn't even affect them.

I think if you submit a report, it has to directly affect you. An example would be someone ramming you or brake checking you. Note that this is it affects you, not other people, not your friend, no one else.

The only exception I can think of would be someone blocking the road.

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50 minutes ago, kultrex said:

Most of the reports on TMP are little petty things that shouldn't be reported at all, like accidentally wrong way driving(player did not intentionally try to run into other players, why report it?)

Excuse me, but can't agree with this statement. How is driving down the motorway on the wrong side accidental? If I see someone driving towards me in the wrong direction, I would slow down and even stop dead in my lane and press F1 if there is enough time. Because how am I supposed to know this is "pure accident" an they mean no harm? Why it is not better to stop on the shoulder, open up the map and look for alternative route or place to turn around legally, or if you are on the job, follow the route advisor, than turning around "accidentally" and drive in the wrong direction and be danger for others?

I will always report this, unless it's very minor mistake, such as in close proximity to ferries/train btw Europe/UK and they correct their error, or if someone overshhots an exit and reverses a short distance without carefulyl without affecting anyone. I can understand that, but there is no such thing as accidentally driving wrong way.

 

50 minutes ago, kultrex said:

red light ignoring... Most interjections are closed and stopping at those interjections on both lanes causes useless traffic hold up, accidental head on crash... If i count all the times people run into me and i have also had couple of those, usually i and others apologize and thats it, no need to report it.

Reporting someone for not stopping for red lights on intersections where only possible way is straight through is not possible and will be declined. However if somone chooses to stop and gets rear ended can report the perpetrator.

You shouldn't and can't be perceived as useless traffic if you stop for red light, and if someone trying to get around you, for example by drivng on the wrong side, causes an accident or any problem for oncomming traffic, they should be held responsible. Same goes for L or T shaped intersections where most people would blindly rush and cut the corners mindlessly without even thinking about rigth of way and simple respect for others, which is the real problem here more than anything else.

 

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This is a very interesting discussion. It seems that TruckersMP are trying to clamp down on people 'reporting for the sake of it' - that is to say travelling down the same areas and actively looking for everything that they can possibly report which will inevitably overwhelm the system (for example, incidents that someone sees but does not directly involve them).

 

Of course in the ideal world it would be good to keep all the roads chaos-free at all times, and this would make usual driving far more enjoyable for all. But it seems to be felt (from what I can gather) that those who constantly report simply for the sake of it to try and get as many people banned as they can, rather errs on the side of abusing the system as it takes valuable Game Moderation time away from genuine incidents which really affect people's game play experience.

 

It's a really tricky issue to try and balance but I can understand fully why they would introduce something like this.

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With the kindest regards,

 

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Thank you for opening this discussion and trying to improve the report system! Here are my thoughts:

 

11 hours ago, victorleung070 said:

However, if a player being crashed and report, is it considered a report spam? If a player play CD road every day and report every reasonable accidents, is it a report spam? The official should make a clear definition on what is spam. 

These questions are answered in the recently added FAQ of this Knowledgebase Article: https://truckersmp.com/knowledge-base/article/1236

I do think they are still a bit vague though, but I'm not sure how feasible it is to write clearer definitions. This seems like the kind of rule that is best left to GMMs' discretion; they can decide better at what people are just spamming the report system than a clearly defined rule ever could.

 

11 hours ago, victorleung070 said:

Secondly, in resulting an accident, the victims do have some responsibility if they do not attempt to avoid an accident. In real life, if a driver does not attempt the avoid an accident, both the victim and the 'crasher' have responsibilities. They may be send to court and receiving penalty. I think this can be implemented to the reporting system. If the player reporting does not showing the sense of defensive driving, such as driving 80 but accelerate when seeing someone overtake them. These players are also causing an accident. They should be penalized too.

This is somewhat covered in the rules: "Baiting other players into accidents will not be tolerated and is punishable."

 

As the rule has been introduced very recently it might still need some balancing, but I do think implementing this rule was the right decision and should be helpful in improving the web report system.

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So what FernandoCR [ESP] is saying is one of the main reasons for this. Cause if you drive on the CD road, you know how bad that road is. And its solely your own decision to drive on that road. We are not forcing you to drive down that road. Most of the time the GPS dosent even want you to take that road. So if you drive down that road you do it on your own accord. And there are players that drive up and down that road and report anyone that brakes the rules. Which ends up causing a whole lot of reports from an area that everyone knows is full of accidents. Its like participating in a Demolition Derby and being mad that your car gets dented. If you willingly drive down that road you know what to expect. So we dont want people just driving up and down that road to report everything they see. Like if you drive anywhere else you should report people that brake the rules. Also those that drive the wrong way down the highway. Because on those roads you should not expect anything to happen. But since the CD road is what it is, you should. And reporting everyone on that road is just considered spam since you should know what to expect. And we are not saying you cant report people from the CD road its just that the problem comes when someone drives up and down the road and uses all their allocated reports only on people on the CD road, which floods the report system and we dont want that. 

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One major flaw I think there is with the report system in game is that only 1 person can report a player at a time regardless of them causing a nuisance to multiple people further down the line. It's been a huge nuisance trying to report someone then getting the famous "This user has already been reported" etc etc making my newer report useless and a waste of effort.

 

Wouldn't it be better to allow unique reports from each player to a person and in the console it'll have the reports for that player plus a number beside them on how many reports they've received what hasn't timed out.

 

Example: Player A has been naughty, ramming Player B. Player B reports Player A (Player B cannot report them again). Player A 1 minute later rams Player C and D and drives off. Player C and D reports Player A and now C and D cannot report him. On the console it will show Player A has 3 active unique reports against their name to check out.

 

Surely higher number reports get dealt with first as only unique players can report them once and there must be a very good reason to get multiple reports in a small time frame to be seen as a priority.

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12 hours ago, - Pink Ribbon - said:

Surely higher number reports get dealt with first as only unique players can report them once and there must be a very good reason to get multiple reports in a small time frame to be seen as a priority.

IIRC, the report system works on the basis of "first come, first serve".

The reason why a multiple reported player isn't prioritized is because it'd open the doors way to abuse.

 

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1 minute ago, blabberbeak said:

IIRC, the report system works on the basis of "first come, first serve".

The reason why a multiple reported player isn't prioritized is because it'd open the doors way to abuse.

 

 

Thats why I mentioned it can only be done uniquely so it cant be spammed by just 1 player. Currently only 1 person can report a player regardless of how much the reported player does after that report to other users. So the system is rather flawed and discourages people to even report players as most of the time you get the "The user has already been reported" error message and a good 90%+ of the time the report goes inactive and times out. I think it's more important a mass rule breaker is seen first before someone who accidentally tapped someone or is falsely reported by 1 user.

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18 minutes ago, - Pink Ribbon - said:

 

Thats why I mentioned it can only be done uniquely so it cant be spammed by just 1 player. Currently only 1 person can report a player regardless of how much the reported player does after that report to other users. So the system is rather flawed and discourages people to even report players as most of the time you get the "The user has already been reported" error message and a good 90%+ of the time the report goes inactive and times out. I think it's more important a mass rule breaker is seen first before someone who accidentally tapped someone or is falsely reported by 1 user.

With abuse I was referring to the possibility of a pack of players (trolls) who agree to report another (innocent) player multiple times with the sole intention to harm him/ her.

 

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Just now, blabberbeak said:

With abuse I was referring to the possibility of a pack of players (trolls) who agree to report another (innocent) player multiple times with the sole intention to harm him/ her.

 

But the staff member would be able to identify that and punish the ones who abuse the reporting system (Which is against the rules currently and is currently in place)

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2 hours ago, - Pink Ribbon - said:

 

Thats why I mentioned it can only be done uniquely so it cant be spammed by just 1 player. Currently only 1 person can report a player regardless of how much the reported player does after that report to other users. So the system is rather flawed and discourages people to even report players as most of the time you get the "The user has already been reported" error message and a good 90%+ of the time the report goes inactive and times out. I think it's more important a mass rule breaker is seen first before someone who accidentally tapped someone or is falsely reported by 1 user.

That's what the web-report system is for. Your in-game reports may time out, the web ones will never time out. Allowing multiple players to report the same person and giving a priority to those persons with multiple reports would turn the in-game report system into a "Calais-Duisburg-report system", leaving all other areas of the map unattended. It doesn't make sense.

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Report spam is considered using up your remaining allowed reports to report everyone who doesn't drive like you do (one player comes to mind; but i won't go into detail).

 

Imagine this, you're on CD road. Entering from Calais side. Someone overtakes you but another vehicle is coming. So they cut you off to make it pass. Then you come into a roadblock just ahead because that same user has crashed into other players causing a roadblock. The roadblock finally clears and a few parked vehicles on the side are passed. Then you get behind someone who is going slightly under the speed limit on a straight. There's about 6+ reports right there. Basically, if it doesn't impact your ability to drive, don't report it. Because there are some players that report every little thing giving the team way more reports then there should be.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/31/2021 at 11:33 PM, - Pink Ribbon - said:

One major flaw I think there is with the report system in game is that only 1 person can report a player at a time regardless of them causing a nuisance to multiple people further down the line. It's been a huge nuisance trying to report someone then getting the famous "This user has already been reported" etc etc making my newer report useless and a waste of effort.

 

Wouldn't it be better to allow unique reports from each player to a person and in the console it'll have the reports for that player plus a number beside them on how many reports they've received what hasn't timed out.

 

Surely higher number reports get dealt with first as only unique players can report them once and there must be a very good reason to get multiple reports in a small time frame to be seen as a priority.

 

I think this would really be a great improvement of the reporting system. If Game/Report Moderators could see, how many ingame reports one player has got recently, it would give them the opportunity to handle certain reports with priority. Therefore the chance that trolls who continously behave badly are banned very quickly would be much higher.

 

Just the day before yesterday a troll blocked dozens of players in Duisburg. He must have been reported several times from many players ... but nothing happened. The road was blocked for more than ten minutes or so. If such reports could be handled with priority, such trolls would be gone in less than a minute.

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On 6/1/2021 at 12:04 PM, blabberbeak said:

IIRC, the report system works on the basis of "first come, first serve".

The reason why a multiple reported player isn't prioritized is because it'd open the doors way to abuse.

 

 

On 6/1/2021 at 12:34 PM, blabberbeak said:

With abuse I was referring to the possibility of a pack of players (trolls) who agree to report another (innocent) player multiple times with the sole intention to harm him/ her.

 

 

I understand your argument, but don't forget: a game/report moderator has the last word on an ingame report. He decides. So I think there's litte room for abuse in this case.

 

In general, the more reports one player gets, the worse he is behaving. Therefore I think it would be useful when a player can get reported from more than one player at a time.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello there,

 

Since your topic has been inactive for over fourteen (14) days, I will lock and move it to our Archive section. 
We apply these procedures, in order to keep the forum organized and structured. 

 

If you have any questions, feel free to DM me. 

 

//Locked & Moved to Archive

Kindest regards,
Stay safe!
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