for Special Transport DLC

[.StεvƐ.]

-1 from me, simply because there’s so many working parts to the DLC that adding it into TMP would be a nightmare, not to mention the fact that the DLC relies on AI to work and so that would either have to be synced or worked around. 

 

If the DLC was just more super large loads, then yeah add it with extreme care and rules, but as it’s more than just a trailer pack, nah. 

 

On 08/01/2018 at 1:57 PM, Joao Rodrigues said:

 

I do not recommend the implementation of this addon without a speed limit of max. 60 km/h.

Driving Special Transports without a speed limit would not only be unrealistic but also unsafe for all traffic road participants.

To be fair, it doesn’t really matter if you impose a max limit or not, if someone can’t drive, they can’t drive, doesn’t matter if they do 30MPH or 130mph. Besides, it’s almost impossible to inject a limiter for specific trailers that are not setup externally from the actual game world. If they ran like the WoT trailers where the limiter is enforced from the webpage essentially, trying to take that and slap it onto specific trailers with specific requirements... no.

 

Its why IF something like this was added, it would have to be on a 100% non contact server with a server wide limiter at realistic speeds and with synced AI working, which is not only ALOT of work, but if a whole new server is required, that’s a whole lot of costs to deal with too. 

[hero84]

It will be good for adding special transport but there will bump into each other~

[zyprexia]

9 hours ago, Joao Rodrigues said:

 

I am very well aware of that, which is why I stated a maximum allowed speed of 60 km/h.

A driver should only drive as fast as he can safely control the vehicle. That can also mean a speed way below the maximum allowed speed limit.

So, why do you need a speed limit than?
Why do you want to restrict the speed of others just because you have to drive slowly? Setting a general speed limit of 60km/h is not realistic at all..

 

[flybel]

^ because the majority of the TruckersMP playerbase cannot be trusted to know how fast they can go in order to keep control over their vehicle. As you can see when you drive around EU#2.

[Guest]

In regards to toll booths, surely for a temporary fix you can set the cargo not to collide with the toll booths.  It would work as a temporary fix, or the other thing is you have to plan carefully where you can take the cargo and stay away from motorways with toll booths on them to avoid getting yourself stuck.  

[Interstate Nomad]

6 hours ago, zyprexia said:

So, why do you need a speed limit than?
Why do you want to restrict the speed of others just because you have to drive slowly? Setting a general speed limit of 60km/h is not realistic at all..

 

 

I do not need it, because I always drive below the maximum allowed speed limit.

My recommendation of a speed limit of max. 60 km/h is for Special Transports only. It will contribute to a more realistic simulation and of course road safety.

 

16 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

To be fair, it doesn’t really matter if you impose a max limit or not, if someone can’t drive, they can’t drive, doesn’t matter if they do 30MPH or 130mph.

I have to disagree.

It does very much make a difference if you try do take a corner with 120 tons at 30 mph or 130 mph.
Because excessive speeds demand more concentration of the driver.

 

[.StεvƐ.]

@Joao Rodrigues

 

well i I have to disagree with you because you should ALWAYS be concentrating to the max of your ability no matter what speed you are doing. You can make the same mistake at 10mph as you would at 100mph, the difference is that at 10mph you have more DISTANCE to react to a situation and correct,whereas at 100mph you haven’t got that luxury. 

 

As for just general driving skill, if you can’t drive, it doesn’t really matter what speed you are traveling at, you will make the exact same mistakes regardless of speed, only difference is how you should counter the momentum. 

 

But I will say, sticking everyone at a 60kmh top speed is just asking for trouble, especially if your route takes you up any sort of incline, you NEED that wiggle room of a higher speed to be able to get enough momentum to clear the hills, I know for a fact, running full manual gears helps but loaded up with 120,000 pounds plus of weight makes even the smallest incline feel like you’re climbing a mountain and if you’re only doing what, 20-40mph? You’ll definitely burnout and get stuck. If max speed was 55-60mph that’s fair enough, it gives enough room in terms of momentum to climb and is not overly dangerous to drive at fully loaded as long as you pay attention, but 60ks is too slow for heavy hauls. 

[H.Alp.I]

My Suggestions

 

Speed: Maximum allowed speed limit for STC must be 60km/h (37 mile/h) as same in the game.

Server: EU1 Simulation server is more suitable then other servers. EU1 drivers who know responsibility. More respectful to others.

Warning Message: STC routes are specific, static. Need to follow the route for complete job. Other drivers can be more cautious if they are warned by showing a message when they enter these routes. Thus avoiding accidents. I don't recommend free roam.

New In Game Rules: New in game rules for STC. Restricted only on STC routes. Who drives on STC routes must be responsible for this rules. 

 

Abbreviation: STC - Special Transport Cargo 

[Interstate Nomad]

8 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

@Joao Rodrigues

 

well i I have to disagree with you because you should ALWAYS be concentrating to the max of your ability no matter what speed you are doing. You can make the same mistake at 10mph as you would at 100mph, the difference is that at 10mph you have more DISTANCE to react to a situation and correct,whereas at 100mph you haven’t got that luxury.

 

I apologize in case I have confused you.

I do not deny that one should always concentrate to the maximum of ones ability.

 

But - anyone driving a vehicle may only drive so fast that the vehicle is constantly controlled.

Which is not given anymore if you drive faster than you are able to control (lack of concentration/ focus).

 

As you correctly stated, the higher the speed, the more distance is passed in the same time. Consequently,  the less time is available to react.

That is why you need to concentrate/ focus more when driving fast.

 

 

8 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

As for just general driving skill, if you can’t drive, it doesn’t really matter what speed you are traveling at, you will make the exact same mistakes regardless of speed, only difference is how you should counter the momentum.

 

One does not do oneself a favor by driving fast if one is not secure or experienced in driving a vehicle. Because it demands more attention due to the above mentioned reason.

 

 

8 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

But I will say, sticking everyone at a 60kmh top speed is just asking for trouble, especially if your route takes you up any sort of incline, you NEED that wiggle room of a higher speed to be able to get enough momentum to clear the hills, I know for a fact, running full manual gears helps but loaded up with 120,000 pounds plus of weight makes even the smallest incline feel like you’re climbing a mountain and if you’re only doing what, 20-40mph? You’ll definitely burnout and get stuck. If max speed was 55-60mph that’s fair enough, it gives enough room in terms of momentum to climb and is not overly dangerous to drive at fully loaded as long as you pay attention, but 60ks is too slow for heavy hauls. 

 

Speed must be adapted to the road, traffic, visibility and weather conditions as well as the personal abilities and characteristics of the vehicle and the load.

The chosen routes for heavy transports already consider the safe progress of the vehicle throughout its journey. That certainly excludes inclines and steep mountain passes that the transport could not handle.

 

My suggestion is to limit the maximum allowed speed only for special transports (DLC) to 60 km/h, and not for everyone.

The challenge and goal of special transports are certainly not excessive speeds, but the safe and professional transport of it.

 

[vrobcio]

If it's even posible to add that DLC to MP (which I'm aware that it dosen't just add new trailers), I will add that there should be a rule - requirement of 2 pilots that escort special cargo and the route should be simple. You want transport special cargo? You need to find 2 pilots for that and go through strictly specified road (no C-D transport) which is wide and short range <300km.

[.StεvƐ.]

14 hours ago, Joao Rodrigues said:

 

I apologize in case I have confused you.

I do not deny that one should always concentrate to the maximum of ones ability.

 

But - anyone driving a vehicle may only drive so fast that the vehicle is constantly controlled.

Which is not given anymore if you drive faster than you are able to control (lack of concentration/ focus).

 

As you correctly stated, the higher the speed, the more distance is passed in the same time. Consequently,  the less time is available to react.

That is why you need to concentrate/ focus more when driving fast.

 

 

 

One does not do oneself a favor by driving fast if one is not secure or experienced in driving a vehicle. Because it demands more attention due to the above mentioned reason.

 

 

 

Speed must be adapted to the road, traffic, visibility and weather conditions as well as the personal abilities and characteristics of the vehicle and the load.

The chosen routes for heavy transports already consider the safe progress of the vehicle throughout its journey. That certainly excludes inclines and steep mountain passes that the transport could not handle.

 

My suggestion is to limit the maximum allowed speed only for special transports (DLC) to 60 km/h, and not for everyone.

The challenge and goal of special transports are certainly not excessive speeds, but the safe and professional transport of it.

 

You are missing my point, if you limit special cargos only, you have the problem of dumb drivers passing and driving dangerously. Plus, if you LIMIT A HEAVY LOAD TO A SLOW SPEED, IT WONT MAKE IT. Hills are your enemy with heavy loads, even a slight incline can reduce your speed by 5-10 mph easy, so you NEED more speed which gives you more MOMENTUM to climb the hills, you limit the speed, you’ll block every road with any sort of gradient.

 

which by your ideology, that’s more unsafe than having a heavy load smashing around at normal speeds. I’m not saying have no limit, but have a reasonable limit that accounts for truck HP and trailer weights and road gradients. It’s not that difficult really. 

 

Just to put put in perspective, 60kmh is 37-38mph, say for arguments sake, for every % gradient, your truck with 700hp and a load weighing 70 tonnes,will lose 5Mph, okay? say you approach a hill with a 5% gradient, your speed is 37mph, by the top you will be doing at most 12mph, excluding gear ratios and gear changes, add those factors in and you’ll be at around 2mph max. 

 

Heavy haulage age is all about managing the weight, the size, the speed and the momentum, if you have little to no momentum, you’ll just cone to a stop and start rolling back and once that weight transfers and gains momentum, it’ll throw you off the road in a heartbeat. That’s why having enough speed, which equals enough momentum, and being in the right gear at the right time is important, you take away the speed and momentum and you are screwed, simple as. Every mile per hour counts in heavy haulage, 1 mph might be the difference between stalling out and making it over the hill. Factor in impatient drivers who can do 100+ and it’s a recipe for chaos everywhere you turn. 

[FernandoCR [ESP]]

15 minutes ago, megadethsteve666 said:

if you LIMIT A HEAVY LOAD TO A SLOW SPEED, IT WONT MAKE IT

I'm not having any problems driving them in single player, they always make it and I never go faster than 60 Km/h with them. Of course, if those loads were allowed in every roads, it would be a lot more difficult to climb certain hills. But that's why SCS made them "route-restricted". Anyway, speed is not the problem with these trailers, but size. In MP, unless they are only allowed in a dedicated server and with lots of limitations, it's unthinkable. With the way most of the players behave, can you imagine what would happen on the C-D road in EU#2? Lots of idiots trying to squeeze the biggest trailers through traffic while doing 100+ Km/h.

[Guest]

I don't agree with the speed limit, which is a waste of time for us to play games

My personal view is that it's not necessary to add it to MP, and it's really fun?

This concept is similar to a double trailer, and now it's not too many users to use a double trailer

So in the face of some fresh and curious things, people always like to make such suggestions.

I also think this is not the focus that TruckersMP should pay attention to, and of course we can continue to discuss it

[Interstate Nomad]

@megadethsteve666,

 

 

9 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

You are missing my point, if you limit special cargos only, you have the problem of dumb drivers passing and driving dangerously. Plus, if you LIMIT A HEAVY LOAD TO A SLOW SPEED, IT WONT MAKE IT. Hills are your enemy with heavy loads, even a slight incline can reduce your speed by 5-10 mph easy, so you NEED more speed which gives you more MOMENTUM to climb the hills, you limit the speed, you’ll block every road with any sort of gradient.

 

"Drivers passing and driving dangerously" is more an issue of careless driving or reckless driving.

Neither of them are directly caused by a speed limit, but rather by the mental state of the driver.

 

As it has been mentioned before by me and also by @FernandoCR [ESP], the routes are given and ensure that one will not be forced to stop on any incline.
So the question of sufficient momentum therefore does not arise at all.

Consequently, your small excursion about momentum is laudable but, in the light of the above, unnecessary.

 

Furthermore, these routes are not kept as a secret, and road traffic participants must expect to encounter slower moving vehicles. But that again is a universal rule in road traffic.

 

9 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

Factor in impatient drivers who can do 100+ and it’s a recipe for chaos everywhere you turn. 

 

I agree that impatience and excessive speeds play a major role in incidents in road traffic.

Their cause however can certainly not be found in a speed limit of Special Transports. It is rather a question of insufficient time management and overestimation of one's driving skills.

 

 

[Carrera18]

If you ask me, there is no meaning when you do not attend escort vehicles. it will look like a absurd when it is not escort vehicles. High power cargo. If so, which one will we use. If I get Special transport. I do not understand anything. so I did not find it right.

[.StεvƐ.]

13 hours ago, Joao Rodrigues said:

@megadethsteve666,

 

 

 

"Drivers passing and driving dangerously" is more an issue of careless driving or reckless driving.

Neither of them are directly caused by a speed limit, but rather by the mental state of the driver.

 

As it has been mentioned before by me and also by @FernandoCR [ESP], the routes are given and ensure that one will not be forced to stop on any incline.
So the question of sufficient momentum therefore does not arise at all.

Consequently, your small excursion about momentum is laudable but, in the light of the above, unnecessary.

 

Furthermore, these routes are not kept as a secret, and road traffic participants must expect to encounter slower moving vehicles. But that again is a universal rule in road traffic.

 

 

I agree that impatience and excessive speeds play a major role in incidents in road traffic.

Their cause however can certainly not be found in a speed limit of Special Transports. It is rather a question of insufficient time management and overestimation of one's driving skills.

 

 

That may be true, but, without the AI, it opens the door to add more routes, more challenge because you cannot try to port over every little line of code SCS added, to MP, it’s like fitting a square peg in a round hole, isn’t going to happen. But even if the routes are the same, doesn’t mean everyone’s trucks are the same, personally, if I ran special cargo in MP, I’d put a smaller engine in my truck, more challenge, so yes, momentum and speed factors in there.

 

Furthermore, not every single person who plays TMP plays it like real life, some want to run loads, but have the ability to do what the want, and if that means going faster than 37mph, so be it, all I’m saying is, don’t dump a stupid limiter thatsat an absurdly low speed, just because you can’t handle a faster speed or feel that EVERY player can’t drive faster than 35. That’s like saying “I’m better than you so I should be allowed to drive at 50 but you commoners have to do 35”. Sometimes you have to compromise your ideas to involve all driving styles and skill levels and restricting everyone to a slow speed is like treating everyone like 1 minute rookies. 

 

In my my own opinion, it doesn’t matter if you drive 35 or double that, the same factors always apply. It’s really simple, if you think you can drive 70 and wreck, you deserve to be punished, simple as that, but limiting people as a precaution does not help teach people how to drive the loads. I for one would rather learn the limits of the load, the limits of my truck with the load and get a feel for the road, not be mothered into going slow, you do t learn anything about the actual loads by driving slow. 

 

I mean, typically you have to start somewhere, you can’t just hand someone a wide, heavy, long load and expect them to drive it like they’ve been driving it for years, you have to learn what you can get away with, what speeds you can achieve safely, how the load reacts to situations etc. 

 

Its not not like I’m saying “oh you dumb for suggesting a speed limit, no limits ever”, all I’m saying is that 37 mph is slow, it might be the max you can get the load up to, but others might be able to get up to higher speeds, if the max limit was the average road speed limit, 55mph, that’s fine for all, it’s not super fast, wreck everyone speeds, it’s more natural for those who drive normally, it’s a win win for all.

[Tosh8]

I vote FOR  but as others said.. since the trailer are a little bit bigger, this will cause even more traffic jams, problems and crash incidents. 

Maybe keeping the speed limiter for these trailers is good idea. Or for example you can add this mod to work only on #EU 1 server, where everyone has speed limit by default. And i guess there u can find more responsible players.

[Interstate Nomad]

8 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

That may be true, but, without the AI, it opens the door to add more routes, more challenge because you cannot try to port over every little line of code SCS added, to MP, it’s like fitting a square peg in a round hole, isn’t going to happen. But even if the routes are the same, doesn’t mean everyone’s trucks are the same, personally, if I ran special cargo in MP, I’d put a smaller engine in my truck, more challenge, so yes, momentum and speed factors in there.

 

If and how the special transports should be escorted by AI traffic in multiplayer is an entirely different matter.

I assume however that AI traffic will not be migrated, as TMP members have already rejected similar suggestions before in other threads.

 

The freedom to choose any truck and combine it with any load already exists.
But the lesson one should learn of an for the load improperly chosen vehicle is certainly not to drive faster.

 

8 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

Furthermore, not every single person who plays TMP plays it like real life, some want to run loads, but have the ability to do what the want, and if that means going faster than 37mph, so be it, all I’m saying is, don’t dump a stupid limiter thatsat an absurdly low speed, just because you can’t handle a faster speed or feel that EVERY player can’t drive faster than 35. That’s like saying “I’m better than you so I should be allowed to drive at 50 but you commoners have to do 35”. Sometimes you have to compromise your ideas to involve all driving styles and skill levels and restricting everyone to a slow speed is like treating everyone like 1 minute rookies.

 

Speed limits exist to increase safety for all road traffic participants, and certainly not to discriminate them.

But If one is more concerned with driving fast than with driving safely, one should examine one's arguments for multiplayer again.

 

 

8 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

In my my own opinion, it doesn’t matter if you drive 35 or double that, the same factors always apply. It’s really simple, if you think you can drive 70 and wreck, you deserve to be punished, simple as that, but limiting people as a precaution does not help teach people how to drive the loads. I for one would rather learn the limits of the load, the limits of my truck with the load and get a feel for the road, not be mothered into going slow, you do t learn anything about the actual loads by driving slow.

 

I think it is more efficient to learn at slow pace.

Because speed is no witchcraft. How could someone possibly be able to attention to the necessary details of manoeuvring oversized and overweighted loads around tight corners if one wrecks the vehicle already before?

 

 

10 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

I mean, typically you have to start somewhere, you can’t just hand someone a wide, heavy, long load and expect them to drive it like they’ve been driving it for years, you have to learn what you can get away with, what speeds you can achieve safely, how the load reacts to situations etc.

 

Did you not wonder then why the speed limit in singleplayer was set to 60 km/h?

Did it never occure to you that the speed limit might have something to do with the fact, that oversized and overweighted loads demand special attention in handling them, and that higher speeds are not really helpful?

 

 

 

[.StεvƐ.]

@Joao Rodrigues 

 

Since when should “Improper” vehicle choice to do with driving fast, if you think international speed limits is “fast” you must be kerb crawling everywhere because it’s not fast. Plus, some people, like myself, feel driving big Scandinavian trucks with near 800hp is not fun nor a challenge, no matter the trailer weight, some people, like myself, find lower up more fun because it’s more challenging and realistic, not all heavy haul and specialist companies can afford 800hp trucks irl. 

 

Hence why morespeed is needed needed for the slower truck because less hip equals less pulling power at lower speeds. 

 

The thing is, it’s subject to personal preference, TMP should NOT be made into a carbon copy of singleplayer and reality where you have to drive perfectly every single second, there’s no fun in that, and that’s what multiplayer is about, being able to be around real drivers and be freer than SP in terms of rules.

 

Also, as previously stated, if you personally feel that doing the exact average posted speed limit is too fast, then you should impose strict 20 mph limits on every load in the game, regardless of dlc and see how people react. 

 

Also, I must digress that at the end of the day, this is a video game, it’s just 1s and 0s, pixels all lined up to form vehicles, this is NOT real life, this is NOT a full simulation of truck driving, if it was, your vehicle would get physical damage, you’d need to eat, sleep, exercise, you’d need to get out the truck and connect air lines and electrics and raise the landing gear, you would have to do a tug test and be required to put on a seatbelt and set your tac.. etc etc, ETS2 and ATS are CASUAL simulators, meaning they are the bridge between arcade and full simulator, that doesn’t make them real life. 

 

So going on about safety etc etc is just hot air, at the end of the day, it’s just pixels on a screen generated by a computer.

 

See for me, I never use in game speed limiters, they annoy me, if you can’t manage your own speed without a computer doing it for you, you are not a real trucker. So no, I do not know that the speed is restricted to a snails pace. 

 

The thing that that you don’t seem to understand sir, is that everyone in the world is different, some people can’t handle driving at speed and wreck, others can, some like to stick to the rules down to the smallest print, others like to follow their own rulebook. (in terms of hauling weight). So saying things like, “did it ever occurs to you that the speed limit has something to do with the fact that oversized, overweighted loads demand special attention”, does not always apply to everyone, to some people, hauling heavy, wide loads is second nature and so it takes almost the same attention, for those people, as it does for normal lightweight loads. 

 

Me personally, I’ve pulled overweight, oversized loads since way before I joined ETS2mp, I used jazzycats oversized, overweight trailer mods and other heavy, wide, tall and long load mods, I even used trucks like my profile pictured truck in ETS2 to haul those loads which makes the job even harder, so to me, driving big heavy loads is second nature, and I’m sure there are a lot more people out there in the same boat, hell I remember hauling a 70tonne train loco through northern Norway through the winding, hilly roads with a Pete 389. 

 

So what I’m saying is, when it comes to making a rule or forced limit, you can’t just base it straight of the real world and your own personal driving style, you have to account for everyone else who plays the game too and if that means sacrificing what you personally want to please thousands of people, then so be it.

[ScaniaFan89]

Everyone saying it will cause chaos, the AI don't even move over properly & end up hitting you....roads have to be clocked otherwise you simply cant leave areas, throw the rule book out the window! 

 

Simple rules could be you must give way or pull over to allow the load to pass & no overtaking at all ( the ai traffic doesn't overtake & also waits for you to exit on slip roads ). 

 

 

[chipmunk197]

 

17 minutes ago, ScaniaFan89 said:

Simple rules could be you must give way or pull over to allow the load to pass & no overtaking at all

people dont even do that now anyways its everyone for them self's on some roads like tonight some admins was asking people to slow down and not to speed and as far as i seen it didnt make one bit of difference so your kinda expecting the impossible 

then you gotta think about them who dont see the load on the trailer messing you up

Edited January 18, 2018 by chipmunk197

[FernandoCR [ESP]]

4 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

sacrificing what you personally want to please thousands of people, then so be it.

Let's remove all TruckersMP in-game rules. That would please thousands of people.

 

3 hours ago, ScaniaFan89 said:

you must give way or pull over to allow the load to pass & no overtaking at all

In MP, in EU#2 server? Keep dreaming. And some of those overtaking will be hauling trailers as huge as yours, only they will be doing 140 Km/h, just in case there's an uphill ahead...

[Guest]

^If all the TMP game rules are removed, I'll leave the multiplayer game（Yes, it's impossible, the rules can't remove all）

 Yes, not all the drivers are friendly, they will not give way to you.

[Carrera18]

^^^ 

There is not always a troll in the game. There is an accident when you go a long way. This is normal on D-C roads.

 

As a result of this proposal, I can find a new proposal. We must use MP. but I have a different idea

[FernandoCR [ESP]]

55 minutes ago, Away from the keyboard said:

^If all the TMP game rules are removed, I'll leave the multiplayer game（Yes, it's impossible, the rules can't remove all）

 Yes, not all the drivers are friendly, they will not give way to you.

I was being sarcastic, obviously. I know that the rules won't be removed.