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AbbieGator

Changes to the ban process

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You don't need to post such stuff, it's not gonna make a difference.

if you want action to be taken, talk to the right persons and let them deal with it. Just give them enough information, real evidence and tell them the complete story of what happened.

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^

Ok, thanks for the advice. Sorry for anything.

Edited by The Leeds Lad
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Well I'd only use screenshots to report about insults, bad language in the chat or an inappropriate name. For "living actions", I use shadowplay. Admins can't see the past, Shadowplay can record with hitting a key several minutes from the past, with videos like those, none of my reports were rejected but one... Because the player I had reported had already been banned by then.

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Eh admin abuse. When people can't find excuses, it's all admins or moderators fault, as ever. Do you know why we decided to do this? To open people's minds and think before doing something wrong, it's to prevent people to grief other users and behave correctly and respecting everyone. It's all about respect between players.

 

We had users with 12/13 bans on their history that kept doing what they always did (insulting,ramming,blocking), they have no respect for others, so I can't see why we should give those people the privilege of using our free mod and using our servers that are paid by developers and by those great people that donate money for maintanance. This way people (hopefully) will try to act better, and if they don't, they won't have anymore the joy of playing with others since everything they like to do is to annoy those who simply want to have fun and play with friends.

 

And related to your last post, if you think rules are unclear, you can still open a topic and talk about which rules are not understandable for you and maybe for others.

 

 

1. I'm a Lead Server Admin(LSA) in a Counter Strike Source Community and deal with players and admins on a daily basis. So I know how admins can be quick to jump the gun or take the rules and interrupt them to further their punishment. I've been a LSA for 4 years now going on 5 with that same community. The only thing higher than an LSA is Roots who are Management. So I'm speaking from experience on dealing with admin's abusing their powers and also dealing with players that break the rules. 

 

2. If they have bans for the same exact thing then I would be fine with an escalating length in the ban. For example in our server for Cade Breaking it goes like this. Warn > Kick > 1 hour ban >1 day ban >2-3 day ban >1 week ban >2 week ban > 1 month ban > perma. Now mind you this is if they break the SAME exact rule each time. If they broke a different rule then they start with a warning first and up the chain you go if it continues. What this does is it gives the player a light cooling off period and lets them come back later on and continue to play on the server. Because the goal as a Admin, LSA and Root is to keep your player base at a constant level and also grow it as well. 

 

By moving to a perma ban on their 6th ban even if each ban is for completely different reasons is wrong and only moves to lowering your player base slowly over time and at the same time it will make the players grow to despise the Mods and not come as often to the servers. 

 

The rules are very unclear as it leaves everything up to admin interpretation which leads to more kicks and bans then are really needed, which then makes the player base not as happy and you know where that leads to. Where shall you like for me to open up that topic so we can all discuss the rules that need to be tightened up and be less ambiguous?  

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Eh admin abuse. When people can't find excuses, it's all admins or moderators fault, as ever. Do you know why we decided to do this? To open people's minds and think before doing something wrong, it's to prevent people to grief other users and behave correctly and respecting everyone. It's all about respect between players.

 

We had users with 12/13 bans on their history that kept doing what they always did (insulting,ramming,blocking), they have no respect for others, so I can't see why we should give those people the privilege of using our free mod and using our servers that are paid by developers and by those great people that donate money for maintanance. This way people (hopefully) will try to act better, and if they don't, they won't have anymore the joy of playing with others since everything they like to do is to annoy those who simply want to have fun and play with friends.

 

And related to your last post, if you think rules are unclear, you can still open a topic and talk about which rules are not understandable for you and maybe for

Are u kidding me? :D I was perma banned DUE TO HISTORY more than a year ago when this rule wasnt even introduced. And after a year my ban appeal was declined. So dont lie pls if u didnt have this before and admins could not perma ban. And do not introduce this like a new conception. This is just a RECOMMENDATION for admins. Nothing more. And no one of my bans was due to insulting, blocking etc. All my bans were related to inappropriate overtaking and parking. All my 10+ or how much there was. I dont even remember now) And no insulting, blocking or on purpose ramming. Ough. And also i was banned when i was going forward on a highway to rotterdam port and i was hitted in my trailer by a turning into tunnel to Amsterdam truck coming from the port. And do you want to know the reason? It was said that i was banned cause i didnt tried to slow down and tried to avoid it. I didnt hit smb, rammed or smb like this. I was hitted only by that turning truck into my trailer. It was about 1.5 years ago or more. While that person saw me, i was horning and even after that he hitted me on the roadside, where i turned to avoid the collision. But i was banned. And he wasnt. Your admin even showed me the video. When it was clear to everybody except him that i was innocent. By any legal road rules of all countries he was guilty in this collision. But your admins have their own rules. And after that ban i will have my ban counter plusplused. So dont lie pls. I have a lot of expereince of playing ets2mp and i saw all your admins at work.

 <quote>why we should give those people the privilege of using our free mod and using our servers that are paid by developers</quote>

A lot of people are ready to pay.  You didnt even try. And if u didnt do that then dont write such things pls.

 

All your admin rules are based on a simple rule: was smb catched or not. And who was more rude and aggressive. They did not try to see who started the first, what was before and etc.To be honest almost all your admins are scholars who dont even try to see the whole situation. 

<quote>annoy those who simply want to have fun and play with friends</quote>

Really? LOL. One of my bans was for ramming. But the real situation was that i was going 170 on a highway and that SIMPLE people playing with friends just took the whole 4 lanes of the HIGHWAY just before my HEAD cause they were just retards who didnt even look in the mirrors before doint that. After that 4 reports were given and hello my new ban. They just were having fan with friends. Nice lie again. I was given also almost 100% dmg. And your great admins banned me for RECKLESS driving and ramming. Really good, isnt it? 

For me it is easier to buy a new game and continue to play as i played before than try to even discuss with your admins. ETS and ATS costs not so much to be scared by perma ban. Really. Not scared at all. 

 

PS: And my last word here. Guys will you be surprised if a person with 25+ bans on several accounts also donated more than 13 copies of ATS cost now? :D I broke your mind now :D Cause i wont write here more i think i can say this now)

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^ (I can't believe we're not allowed to use an actual popular forum feature, the quote #bringbackquotes)

 

Hold on a minute, 170 on a highway? Noone on earth thinks this will end well in any situation. Also, to be fair, in Europe (or in the Netherlands atleast) it's not illegal to stay on the left lanes, but it's recommended not to do so and you can get pulled over to be warned. All you had to do was honk your horn, flash your fog lights or ask in chat for them to move (this probably wouldn't work since, well, 170km/h?)

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^

Server is without speedlimiter. So i can choose speed on my own. And this is not reckless. You could be cutted the same way on 60 km\h. I have wheel and i can control truck on such speed easily. 99 parts of highways can be passed at this speed easy. On two lane village roads u can go with average 140-150. Even on narrow village road under rotterdam which starts at duisburg. Which is the longest road of such kind and is very interesting to drive. And if there was a space for a truck belive me i would pass it. And my average speed is 155-160 km\h. And this is with trailer. Just choose the lightest trailer in the town where you are. If you are lucky and there are 4 or 6 tonns trailer then on volvo u can go with highway average 155-160. And with some top speed on downhills around 175-176. And with wheel if u can drive it is easy to control the truck. And on such speed trailer gives u stability and control. I passed a lot of people without trailer at all who were doin their best

Edited by The Leeds Lad
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What are you going to do, when player amount will decrease by half, in months ?

 

Because I, together with others who think like me, are going to report every. single. rule. breaking. via website report system with evidences (especially insults... I come with one every 5-6 minutes in peak time) . Since it is stated in rule, you admins are going to punish them. Eventually some will be perma-banned, or long-bans. Or rage quits.

 

When everything will go organised and no rule breakings occur, even it will be perfect for you; trust me, for us it will not be good. No more fun. Monotonus, straight driving... No more laughters... No more "Idiots on Road part.199" series  (those IDIOTS are very important - but not the most important - reason of popularity and fun in MP, you can make a poll about it if u like, for statistics... Many do enjoy them even being victim, and feeling anger.)... No more endless queues because of an idiot... It's just like playing with AI, jeez.

 

Maximum players dropping from 2000s to  1500s, then down 1000s (if this system stays unchanged... Amen to that!) ... If it goes down 1000, I will also quit. I only drive in servers when it is almost filled... Less traffic, less fun.

 

The rank in moddb will also drop drastically.

 

I think that this topic should appear as pop-up when entering the forum homepage, because this is really important, and everyone should be aware of this (I coincidentally found this... Didn't know before!) . 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

 

Those who think like me: Maybe we should organize a convoy , driving 25 mph on highway, one-lane , totally organised,  with all friendly chat, telling eachother our stories when we were 18 months old... slow as possible, anyway we are going, not breaking rules!

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If smb doesnt believe me then look at this video. With new rules this could be perma ban. And nobody listened to me. I was just banned for TWO WEEKS by a scholar who didnt even know how to type reckless correct. He typed wreckless lol. And this was true. I was banned for nothing. May be if i had wreck i would recieve no ban at all :D

 

 

PS: And some words about your new rule. Two days ago i was banned for two day for OVERTAKING and RECKLESS driving (yes yes, again overtaking and reckless as always) ON A SINGLE-TRACK road. OVERTAKING ON A SINGLE-TRACK ROAD. A road with one direction and lane. I was going on the grass. And opposite truck was going on the grass too. I stopped, but he was not in time with this. And i was banned for reckless, overtaking and ramming. Ramming a person who actually rammed me cause i stopped before he hitted me. Ok. Two days, i have no time and i dont even want to argue with your admins. No problem. Yesterday i came to check my ban which shoudl expire yesterday too. And what do you think? I saw that my ban was increased to one month. AND MORE. DURING BEING BANNED I WAS GIVEN ANOTHER BAN WHICH INCREASED MY TOTAL BAN TIME FOR THREE MONTHS NOW. DO YOU BELIEVE THIS? Real life comedy show. And im not sure that while these three months i wont be given another ban which will ban me permanently :D

 

PS2: New kenworth is amazing. Powerful engines finally came in ats. Except the fact that i see nothing in the mirrors due to the exhaust

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^

It is 0.1.0.8.4 alpha on the video. It was a long time ago. I just showed u ONE of my bans. And there were a lot of such bans. Not only for me. Two or three were for parking on the grass in EU, 6 for overtaking in EU without touching smb or making even a slowdown for smb. And it is useless to write to clarkinator or smb else. They just do not listen to players. They NEVER listen to them. They do smth only when it is a problem for themselves or if online is reducing and they are hitted in their ass by real life. Admins here are not proactive. They are reactive. I remember those time with speedlimiter. I remember those polls with voting when root PROMISED AND SWEARED that poll, which was initiated by admins, will resolve speedlimiters fate. And after getting more than 70% of votes for removing it he did NOTHING. Nothing has changed. SL was still there and all was as always. After that were a lot of polls created again but it was useless. I dont believe them after that and it is really useless to argue with smb or try to say them smth. Also i asked him a lot of times for REST api, suggested help for improving services and etc (im j2ee dev). He said that rest will remain as it is and we would never change smth. But a lot of people asked for that. And finally after a year and half features which i and a lot of other people asked were added. A miracle, isnt it? :D

PS: And online on speedlimitless servers prooves that players were right. Cause it is higher there now than on EU1.

PS: I dont say that im innocent in all my bans. A lot of them were provided with road rules breaking but i never did it with purpose to ram smb, block, insult or smth else like that. And im not such a person as scania970 wanted to describe me (cause i have such amounts of bans). That is what im trying to say. I always try to avoid crashes and create minimal affect on others) But those road rule breaking were not for such ban periods at all.

Edited by The Leeds Lad
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A while ago, people were complaining about trolls and low banlengths. We decided to change our way of working to remove all the trolls and make those people happy. Now people start complaining the system is bad en they want to keep trolls.

 

If you think the admin didn't give you a fair ban or whatever, create a ban appeal and wait for the decision of the admin. Show everything you have in that appeal. Speak English and show respect. If the appeal gets rejected, you can always try to contact Clarkinator. Again, show respect. Don't start talking sh*t about staff since that will turn out bad for you.

 

We can't make everyone happy, we got this rules since people asked for it.

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^ Noone has ever stated that they wanted to keep the trolls. The thing is, few of the banned players like the game, and have no intention of trolling, yet admins class them as a troll (a troll deliberately tries to ruin someone's experience). For example, the guy in the video above, should not be called a troll, since there is no evidence of him deliberately ruining one's experience; he does not ram into anyone straight on, does not cut them off and does not stand still to block traffic. His driving style might not be appropriate, but this in no way indicates him as a troll, and he should not be banned this long for it.

 

TL;DR - People asked to ban trolls, not the regular players who try to be as realistic as possible.

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^ It's not worded like "I want to keep trolls" but that's what I understand from the following quote.

When everything will go organised and no rule breakings occur, even it will be perfect for you; trust me, for us it will not be good. No more fun. Monotonus, straight driving... No more laughters... No more "Idiots on Road part.199" series  (those IDIOTS are very important - but not the most important - reason of popularity and fun in MP, you can make a poll about it if u like, for statistics... Many do enjoy them even being victim, and feeling anger.)... No more endless queues because of an idiot... It's just like playing with AI, jeez.

I agree that the video is not really showing any real offense at first sight, I might review it again when I get home. Admins can make mistakes too and we are not that stubborn to admit it.

We just try to get a perfect set of rules and a good way of working to do best for everyone. However, we have to disappoint a few guys with every choice we make. There is no ultimate solution so make sure you don't do anything wrong so we don't need to ban you.

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Well, yeah. But this doesn't only affect deliberate trolls like aforementioned:

 

For unintentional crashes and light insults, one will consider them deliberate and offence; and it will still consider as ban. Especially the people with long ban list yet behaving totally normal; will face 1-3 month ban just for telling someone "idiot" , or * , which are used in real life a lot... Whoever gets seriously offended by such words even towards them needs to get a life, seriously. That is too *. You don't become an idiot when someone tells you so, if you are not. That is just expression of anger in general. In "GAMING WORLD", these are totally acceptable, and shouldn't be considered as direct ban  till it goes excessively racist, religious, or nationalist, etc. One should just get over it and keep moving, rather than crying to staff in malevolent manner.

 

Today I played for about an hour or so, and I already screened 6 people insulting other, and considering whether report them or not. If I do report, I will feel like shallow, anyway rule breaking is rule breaking... I have been banned for basic things even didn't cause serious crash and went extreme. Ban is ban, right? From now, yeah it seems. Countdown from 6.

 

"Regardless of what happened" , facing 1-3 month ban is ridiculously harsh and strict from my side... Yes, every offence should have limits (nobody should repeat it everytime, and we should increase punishments for repetitions to make them be afraid for next), but an insulter, someone parked near Oxnard rd. on parkspot or on grass hurting nobody , just watching the traffic mess   should not be put into same bag with speedhacker eventually.  (1-3-perma  applies for speedhackers, remember from rule update!!!)

 

We aren't doing rocket science here. We aren't professional community, like IVAO/VATSIM (professional virtual aviation community, you can google if you wonder. Im member for 6+ years). Are we promoting trucking job? No. Is ATS/ETS2 super-duper realistic? No, neither SP nor MP.   We are here, to have fun. Share experience. Enjoy hours of gameplay with real people. This is not a job. This is a game.

 

In conclusion,  please remove the 6-ban rule. Keep banning trolls for about 1-2 week  upon discretion for actions,  and ban them again if they continue doing. And again, again, and again. If you don't, you will not only get rid of trolls from servers; but also lose considerable amount of players because of simple reasons, being reported for sake of being a hero, trying to look perfectly obedient and obsessively loyal player towards report-reviewing staff. This will eventually lead to less friendly environment in game world, increase paranoia, reduce trust to strangers and such.  Some will eventually become better player, because of getting tired of trolling or causing issues, doing same thing over and over definitely leads to boredom

 

Nobody is perfect. You can never expect anyone behave perfectly like a robot. Such strictness may give you higher overall standards, but definitely drop down popularity. You have 800.000+ registered members , earned this number in less than 2 years of time. Don't you wanna boost it up 1.000.000 milestone?  Please don't counterfeit it with ban evaders creating smurf accounts, that will look shame. Keep promoting the mod, being more open towards everyone. Popularism brings success, no matter how. Fact of 21st Century, face with it :)

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I have a better idea...  I feel that you ain't gonna listen to me anyway , but there is my 2c worth idea:

Make EU-1 Hardcore, and EU-2 Casual  servers.   Apply the 6-ban rule to EU-1,   whereas keeping EU-2 as standard, as used to be.  Neither you will lose players, nor players will be so obsessed about their actions.... When one is banned 6 times, he will no longer be able to join Hardcore, where players are with higher standards and what you promote for; but he still can enjoy playing in EU-2 Casual servers where it is still regulated as  before, but not facing perma-ban. Rather for days/week . 

 

 

EDIT: My posts are kinda referencing trolls, but this is because I don't find bad drivers / rookies as an excuse. Good driver or bad driver, a driver IS NOT A TROLL. I hope you got me correct this time.

 

Thank you.

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^ It's not worded like "I want to keep trolls" but that's what I understand from the following quote.

I agree that the video is not really showing any real offense at first sight, I might review it again when I get home. Admins can make mistakes too and we are not that stubborn to admit it.

We just try to get a perfect set of rules and a good way of working to do best for everyone. However, we have to disappoint a few guys with every choice we make. There is no ultimate solution so make sure you don't do anything wrong so we don't need to ban you.

 

Then you clearly don't get what he means by what you quoted then. He's not saying keep the trolls, he's saying that there are people that are bad drivers in the game just like there are in real life. This adds a bit of realism to the game and can make it more entertaining for everyone. Sorry but I find it boring if everyone is worried to make a mistake and drive overly cautious for fear of being banned for a minor infraction. 

 

For the video part, nothing in there is ban worthy. But yet an admin banned the player because guess what? The rules are ambiguous as hell, and leads to having different types of bans being done for the same reason. You don't have a uniform system for banning players and the different offenses.

 

 

Unfortunately you don't have a perfect set of rules which is what's causing issues with players. I've also noticed that all the offenses state kick/ban. So do you kick first or ban? Because I've seen plenty of videos where no warning is given and its a straight ban. So you don't give the player a heads up that hey you might want to drive safer or you might get banned. 

 

Your last statement is very arrogant about the rules and what the players can do. Because there will be situations that players can't avoid because of the timing or someone else's actions.  

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^ I'm sorry if I understood it wrong.

 

I understand what you are trying to tell us, it's not our intention to let you guys play in fear of getting banned with every mile you drive.

There is a difference in driving relaxed and doing dangerous/useless stuff like cutting off, blocking, ramming, wrong way driving ect.

I know people tend to insult alot with "idiot", which isn't really a bannable offense in my eyes, but insulting is just something that doesn't make this place better.

 

Trust me, we also just want to take a drive to relax from our day at work or school. We don't ban players because we just want to ban someone. It's a game that people play to have fun, and we really want you guys to enjoy this game. It's just sad to see some people destroying all the fun for others while they also can play games where creating chaos and madness is one of the goals of that game.

 

We had to make those rules so strict because players asked for it, by asking here on the forums and by driving around crazy. If you are playing online with friends, you surely can have fun but don't take the the fun away from other players you meet on the roads.

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^ You say it's not your intention, but by the ACTIONS of your staff this is exactly what is happening to your player base. 

 

Insulting is one thing but seeing people getting banned for saying "Oxnard is cancer" is just plain stupid. Who was the player insulting? The great city of Oxnard? LOL. It's ridiculous things like that is what make the players angry at the mods. 

 

If people can't get mad at some idiot for crashing into them, that seems pretty harsh on your part. It's human nature to be mad at someone when something like that happens. Unless you expect us to be mindless drones and somehow discard our emotions? We have a saying in my gaming community about servers that have VERY strict rules we call them "Christian servers" since those servers literally have the same rules you do. No cussing, no insulting and the list goes on how ridiculous and politically correct the rules are.

 

I feel like I'm caught in a loop with the admin's just repeating the same thing and circling the wagons since they have no real rebuttal to the very real issues that are being brought forth by your player-base. Which mind you keeps the mod alive without the player-base you'd only have the mods playing unless that's what you want? A server where like minded people that live in some crazy Utopia is what you want.  

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^ The "insult" wasn't directed at a person but a location in the game. So now if you say a location is bad and somehow insult it you can get banned? Silly. 

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