Update to our Game Moderation Strategy

[Interstate Nomad]

49 minutes ago, NightBIade said:

 

Firstly, the speed limit change was for the interest of the player base, and we have to understand that this is still a video game. So, you can expect that everything won't be fully in line with 'Simulation'.

 

Secondly, C-D isn't an actual road - it was created by SCS, like many other roads. TruckersMP have nothing to do with the creation of the map, they only made these form of edits to help ease traffic on busy roads. If the map was on a full real life scale then the map would be much larger. That's why there's a mod called Promods, which attempts to make the map realistic.

 

It's irrelevant for which reason the changes were made. The result however compounds the feel of an arcade game.

I know and understand that this is what the majority of your community claims to enjoy the most. But don't make the mistake thinking that there was a feel of simulation. That's no more than window dressing.

 

In conclusion, both of your statements confirm what I have written earlier: the TruckersMP team isn't interested in simulation.

[Leon Baker]

Just now, blabberbeak said:

 

It's irrelevant for which reason the changes were made. The result however compounds the feel of an arcade game.

I know and understand that this is what the majority of your community claims to enjoy the most. But don't make the mistake thinking that there was a feel of simulation. That's no more than window dressing.

 

In conclusion, both of your statements confirm what I have written earlier: the TruckersMP team isn't interested in simulation.

 

Everyone here has an own understanding of the term simulation.

[Interstate Nomad]

4 minutes ago, Leon Baker said:

 

Everyone here has an own understanding of the term simulation.

 

Out of curiosity: what's the TruckersMP team's understanding of the term "simulation"?

 

[L-DR@GO]

15 minutes ago, blabberbeak said:

 

Out of curiosity: what's the TruckersMP team's understanding of the term "simulation"?

 

am not part of the team...  but let me Hack in 

simulator - A machine that simulates an environment for the purpose of training or research 

simulation - A simulation is an imitative representation of a process or system that could exist in the real world..

Simulation is used in many contexts, such as simulation of technology for performance tuning or optimizing, safety engineering, testing, training, education, and video games. Simulation is also used with the scientific modeling of natural systems or human systems to gain insight into their functioning

 

Simulation can be used to show the eventual real effects of alternative conditions and courses of action. Simulation is also used when the real system cannot be engaged, because it may not be accessible, or it may be dangerous or unacceptable to engage, or it is being designed but not yet built, or it may simply not exist.

 

So what's really your question ???

[Interstate Nomad]

5 minutes ago, L-DragO* said:

am not part of the team...  but let me Hack in 

simulator - A machine that simulates an environment for the purpose of training or research 

simulation - A simulation is an imitative representation of a process or system that could exist in the real world..

Simulation is used in many contexts, such as simulation of technology for performance tuning or optimizing, safety engineering, testing, training, education, and video games. Simulation is also used with the scientific modeling of natural systems or human systems to gain insight into their functioning

 

Simulation can be used to show the eventual real effects of alternative conditions and courses of action. Simulation is also used when the real system cannot be engaged, because it may not be accessible, or it may be dangerous or unacceptable to engage, or it is being designed but not yet built, or it may simply not exist.

 

So what's really your question ???

 

Why do you answer to a question that was specifically directed to the TruckersMP team?

Why do you fail to provide the source of the information you copied it from, in your case Wikipedia?

 

[L-DR@GO]

2 minutes ago, blabberbeak said:

 

Why do you answer to a question that was specifically directed to the TruckersMP team?

Why do you fail to provide the source of the information you copied it from, in your case Wikipedia?

 

yes exactly ..

you checked that too kudus 

 

you needed an answer I gave full details 

[Interstate Nomad]

30 minutes ago, L-DragO* said:

yes exactly ..

you checked that too kudus 

 

you needed an answer I gave full details 

 

1. The answer to a why question is never yes.
2. I checked your text because I got suspicious when you suddenly wrote flawless English.
3. You didn't answer the question and you can't answer the question, because you're not part of the TruckersMP team.

[partyaap]

12 hours ago, Foobrother said:

Yes on paper, you're right. And I can see that now the web-report system is at "Normal". But I'm still waiting to see any improvement on the road.

I've been playing regularly on CD during peak times (with 3000-3500 players connected) over the last week to see if GMs are more present and if my in-game reports are processed.

While I've seen a bit more GMs playing, I've not seen more active moderation going on and my in-game reports are still timing out.

 

Also, to continue with the logical thinking, if we have more moderation (in-game) that means we would have more people punished and banned? At the end of the day, the offenses remain the same as if they were reported on the web system?

So that should translate to:

More in-game moderation (kick & bans) + new, more performant, system preventing ban evading = less total connected players compared to before September (when the latest update was deployed)

Unfortunately when I'm looking at the public stats I'm not seeing any decline in number of connected players since the update announcement on 1st of September:

Maybe because there are more new players than in the previous months which would compensate the banned players (who, by definition, should be less connected)?

Or simply because we are still not processing more offenses than before the update

 

Or another reason I've not foreseen?! 

The amount of new players probably compensate for it.

 

TMP ID: 5200000 is from 2 September.
TMP ID: 5219635 is from a few minutes ago as of writing this.

 

19635 new players in 20 days.

[L-DR@GO]

21 minutes ago, blabberbeak said:

 

1. The answer to a why question is never yes.
2. I checked your text because I got suspicious when you suddenly wrote flawless English.
3. You didn't answer the question and you can't answer the question, because you're not part of the TruckersMP team.

You just don't no what you really want ...

[Interstate Nomad]

7 minutes ago, L-DragO* said:

You just don't no what you really want ...

 

I'd like to know the TruckersMP team's definition of the term "simulation", which is what I clearly stated in my post.

Your objective however remains a mystery.

[3v.fi]

On 9/22/2023 at 2:04 AM, Foobrother said:

Or another reason I've not foreseen?! 

There's a couple of things. First, the bans prevent players from playing regardless of where the ban was issued. Tipping the scale from more bans from web reports to more bans in-game isn't going to change the overall rate of bans issued in the short term.

Second, while there's a lot of incidents that are unfortunately missed, the vast majority do follow the rules so you're unlikely to notice an impact on the concurrent players regardless of what happens with punishments. It's easy to forget that most people don't even drive on C-D at any given time (right now it's about 28% of players on Sim 1).

[MestBest]

We’re trying hard to put a stop to the attitude some players take, being against one another, reporting for very minor things. Equally however, we still intend to deal with those who cause serious issues in-game, that impacts upon players severely, with stringent moderation actions.

 

Ultimately this is a game, and there has to be an understanding that there are instances when a simple mistake may be made, not requiring further action

 

 

might want to re-visit these because it's definitely not true, at all.

[chaotic-control]

8 hours ago, ^3v. said:

It's easy to forget that most people don't even drive on C-D at any given time (right now it's about 28% of players on Sim 1).

I'm glad this stat was stated.

It sounds like a lot, if not everyone, commenting on this thread, who are against the changes, just drive up and down the C-D constantly. (Although I'm sure if anyone responds to that statement, they are bound to deny it )

My advice would be to drive literally anywhere else on the expansive map. Just staying within Germany especially, you'll find many people to interact with. And I'm sure you'll have a much nicer, chilled out driving experience.
You may still encounter the odd troll now and again, so you'll still get your reporting 'fix', but ultimately you can enjoy the game, drive, and have fun.

[Be4rdy]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:49 AM, StateCA [NL] said:

Define "powertrip". And why should the user have to know?

You know fine well what i mean by powertrip, youve got certain mods out there who like abusing their power because they can for the slightest mistake, banning people because their friends with the person who reported, So yea id like to know who it was that banned me

 

another thing that i have never got was the appeals process, You should not be appealing to the person who banned you to unban you that is never going to happen ever, So either let us know who it was or change the appeals process where it is dealt with by somebody else who can agree or disagree.

Tbh i dont care these days im avoiding going on tmp its just no fun anymore, nothing is ever done about the folk who are out to cause trouble but  dont dare call them a name because that report becomes null and void, 

[partyaap]

13 hours ago, Be4rdy said:

You know fine well what i mean by powertrip, youve got certain mods out there who like abusing their power because they can for the slightest mistake, banning people because their friends with the person who reported, So yea id like to know who it was that banned me

 

another thing that i have never got was the appeals process, You should not be appealing to the person who banned you to unban you that is never going to happen ever, So either let us know who it was or change the appeals process where it is dealt with by somebody else who can agree or disagree.

Tbh i dont care these days im avoiding going on tmp its just no fun anymore, nothing is ever done about the folk who are out to cause trouble but  dont dare call them a name because that report becomes null and void, 

Banning people because they are friends with the one who reported?

 

What does it matter who reported? If the violation is banable then a ban should be issued. Doesn't matter who reported it.

If the violation is not banable and a ban has been issued then either the moderator will correct their mistake in the appeal, or the moderator will be told off for their mistake.

If there is clear evidence that the moderator purely abused their power to issue an invalid ban, they will be removed from the team depending on the severity, I assume. I am not a manager so I don't know what internal standards/procedures they have.

 

Most cases of "power abuse" I see seems to be people not agreeing that a certain action is banable even though it is.

That is not the moderator "abusing" their power. That is you disagreeing with management's moderation policy.

 

Appealing to the moderator who banned you is because the moderator that issued the ban can explain his reasoning the best. Plus, they are the ones that should add the evidence during the appeal if they haven't already.

 

 

[aesthxwolf]

On 9/20/2023 at 3:00 PM, [OCSC Event] Antho said:

In other words, they're just saying that they've anonymised the reports so that their team is protected and that the limit on reports will be 10 (even though it already has been for many months...) So there are no big changes.

The in-game toxicity of "rec ban" text remains the same and the number of reports processed in-game (the most important ones) is still very low, unfortunately, so I understand when you say that you don't understand much, because it's a huge amount of text for very little information.

now I understand thanks

[Mogebear]

[Leon Baker]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:47 PM, blabberbeak said:

 

Out of curiosity: what's the TruckersMP team's understanding of the term "simulation"?

 

 

TruckersMP gives the players ability to simulate a truck, car and bus driver. The way someone wants to simulate that is up to them, that can either be a simulation of a driver that follows the speed limit and other traffic rules, or someone who does not want to follow the rules but can face consequences for that (our punishment system).

 

One of the most popular arguments I read here is the speed. In real world, trucks are limited technically to certain speeds. But that does not mean those trucks cannot reach higher speeds if we remove those technical limitations. SCS did not accidentally give trucks the ability to accelerate till 170-180 km/h. I have never seen anyone blaming SCS and saying that ETS2 is a racing game and not a simulation because of that.

 

It is ultimately up to the person playing the game to decide what kind of driver they want to simulate. Remember that simulation and realism might be similar but are two completely different terms. I know that lots of people here can have a different opinion on this matter and I can bet this can turn into a heated discussion, but since you wanted to know what's our position on that, here is the answer.

 

As an additional note, I would love to mention that the load on the website report system is Low right now and the response time is around 24 hours. There have already been some comments that players see more live in-game moderation and starting from October I believe this will only keep improving considering our internal changes and the fact that we have recently started recruitment for Report Moderators.

[juanes2223]

On 9/1/2023 at 10:20 AM, HandOfClash said:

That's the point of this post, I believe. The more website work we get to do, the less we can be available to help right when a violation happens. That leads to this reporting culture, repeating itself regardless of how much work we do. 

Hence the changes now in place, trying to focus more on in-game violations rather than website reports which been several weeks old. 

It is also understandable because of the amount of reports they have on the web. For this reason, we hardly see them on the C-D route. But I like the idea of them looking for strategies to be more in-game.

[Syllemylle]

On 9/1/2023 at 5:00 PM, MrAndyTF said:

 

we have also introduced a system to anonymise our moderation. This means when you are banned or have a report handled, you will not see the name of the moderator who issued a punishment. This aims to reduce the abuse and harassment that unfortunately some of our team have to endure, when they issue punishments in-game. You will still be able to discuss with this moderator in your appeal, but they will just remain anonymous.

--> View post on homepage

I hope moderators get the option to make themselves known. The moderating system is already very closed out for the public and I think this can lead to more frustration. In general Im against being anonymous in these types of situation, but I understand if the harassment have went out from being just on the screen to real life, that it could be necessary.

 

[Foobrother]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:29 PM, StateCA [NL] said:

The amount of new players probably compensate for it.

 

TMP ID: 5200000 is from 2 September.
TMP ID: 5219635 is from a few minutes ago as of writing this.

 

19635 new players in 20 days.

If you are right (and your demonstration seems to prove it), why isn't the curve growing before we introduced the new strategy (before the 1st of September)? If the new strategy is working, we should see a difference? Or for some mysterious reason, much more new players joined TMP since the 1st of September?!

 

On 9/23/2023 at 3:14 PM, ^3v. said:

Tipping the scale from more bans from web reports to more bans in-game isn't going to change the overall rate of bans issued in the short term.

I disagree. When I see GMs working in-game I can regularly see 2-3 players being banned in less than 30sec (and even more for kicks). I doubt you can get this frequency when processing web reports. I'm pretty sure for 1h of in-game moderation on CD you get more bans than for 1h of web reports moderation.

 

On 9/23/2023 at 3:14 PM, ^3v. said:

the vast majority do follow the rules so you're unlikely to notice an impact on the concurrent players regardless of what happens with punishments. It's easy to forget that most people don't even drive on C-D at any given time (right now it's about 28% of players on Sim 1).

Fair point. But you shouldn't see higher peak number of players since the 1st of September. Except if we actually really have more new players (for the same duration) than before the 1st of September. Especially now with the new auto-kick system for ban evading players.

Or the stats are erroneous?!

 

[Foobrother]

On 9/23/2023 at 11:40 PM, chaotic-control said:

I'm glad this stat was stated.

It sounds like a lot, if not everyone, commenting on this thread, who are against the changes, just drive up and down the C-D constantly. (Although I'm sure if anyone responds to that statement, they are bound to deny it )

My advice would be to drive literally anywhere else on the expansive map. Just staying within Germany especially, you'll find many people to interact with. And I'm sure you'll have a much nicer, chilled out driving experience.
You may still encounter the odd troll now and again, so you'll still get your reporting 'fix', but ultimately you can enjoy the game, drive, and have fun.

I agree with you and do that most of the time. But you still don't get the the busy traffic experience you can get on CD or during events (especially when there are intersections).

 

With the existing player base, in a perfect world, ideally you would have the choice between all traffic density with pretty much the same level of offenses between CD (congested), Germany (normal) and the rest of the map (very low traffic). Unfortunately currently the CD area seems to gather 99% of the racing drivers & trolls (which isn't a bad thing in a way ).

[Moonberry]

I hope this change is for better. 

 

[Foobrother]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:42 PM, Leon Baker said:

One of the most popular arguments I read here is the speed. In real world, trucks are limited technically to certain speeds. But that does not mean those trucks cannot reach higher speeds if we remove those technical limitations. SCS did not accidentally give trucks the ability to accelerate till 170-180 km/h. I have never seen anyone blaming SCS and saying that ETS2 is a racing game and not a simulation because of that.

If I understand what you're saying, "removing technical limitations" is part of the simulation experience. Fair enough, why not, even if it's completely illegal, if you can do it in real life, why not doing it in game?!

But in that case just follow completely your logic and also allow racing trucks mods or Mad Max trucks etc... These are also present in real life and illegal on normal roads! Why allowing to remove speed limiters and preventing other illegal changes?! Just be logic and let ALL the real life changes/behaviours become possible!

 

Like @blabberbeak pointed, you are ambiguous and seem to model TMP to be between a Simulation and Arcade game. Unfortunately it became more and more an Arcade game over the last few years.

 

On 9/28/2023 at 9:42 PM, Leon Baker said:

As an additional note, I would love to mention that the load on the website report system is Low right now and the response time is around 24 hours. There have already been some comments that players see more live in-game moderation and starting from October I believe this will only keep improving considering our internal changes and the fact that we have recently started recruitment for Report Moderators.

I'll revert you to my previous comment when you already did this speech: 

I've been away for a week and just back. Before, as mentioned in my previous comments, I didn't see any improvement while I was playing during peak time with my in-game reports not being processed and timing out. I submitted ~8 web reports in my last 2 sessions (~1h each). Fortunately I didn't play in the following days otherwise I would have had to wait to get my reports posted. It took between 3 to 5 days to get them processed, which is indeed an improvement but simply because many players are now blocked and can't submit all the offenses they record!

As I said, process at least 50% of my in-game reports, and I'll stop complaining!

 

Maybe things have changed over the last week ?! I'll see in the coming days...

[Legends01]

I think this method is better for me. Serious crimes will come to the fore more.