Removal of permanent bans for ban evading

[Patriktanki]

I think this is the worst rule update TruckersMP has ever released. While I get that people make mistakes and we should give them another chance, ban evading is very different as it literally defeats the purpose of enforcing the rules and banning people. This would be a considerable idea if everyone was caught who is ban evading, but I'm not sure this is the case.
Also, an interesting case is when someone was banned for hacking earlier, tried to evade it so a ban evading ban has been issued against them on the other account, I am not sure every single case will be checked one-by-one, so the "those that have been previously banned will retrospectively have their bans modified where appropriate to reflect this" part either means every ban evading ban will be removed automatically (like when the §2.8 change came out) or these will be checked manually, but the second option would take so much time and effort.

[L-DragO*]

okay .... 

[Flaming.]

30 minutes ago, Patriktanki said:

Also, an interesting case is when someone was banned for hacking earlier, tried to evade it so a ban evading ban has been issued against them on the other account, I am not sure every single case will be checked one-by-one, so the "those that have been previously banned will retrospectively have their bans modified where appropriate to reflect this" part either means every ban evading ban will be removed automatically (like when the §2.8 change came out) or these will be checked manually, but the second option would take so much time and effort.

Due to NDA I can't go into the actual process- but if they are banned for hacking or a 2.9 extension the ban will still be permanent. 

 

 

[L-DragO*]

Let’s use a real life situation in this case, for example, If I was to murder a mass amount of people and go to prison for it, do you think because I’ve served 8 years prison time I’m not going to come out of prison and do it all again?

 

Mr MFO4... 

 

   So your saying because of what you think . nobody should be giving a chance .. because you think they will come back and commit murder again .

what led to the murder ? 

was it led by self defense ?. 

was it by mistake ?

or he or she enjoys killing people?

 

Do you think people don't have a bad past because you see them good?.

Namor Quote {wakanda 4ever}    

"Only the most broken people, Can be Great Leaders"

 

Everyone deserves a second chance .

what you do with it, its up you

[L-DragO*]

On the other hand , is it wrong if TMP wants to gain more players???

['Leo.]

@FM04Hi,mate you compared it to real life it's just a game so if it was real life yes but it's a game I think everyone should be given a chance because it's a game, you can empathise with the other players.

[Bеаn]

@'Leo. Hi. It's a simulator; hence there should be a simulation of real life. There doesn't need to be a strict level of simulation, but there should be some resemblance. 

FMO4's comparison, whilst a tad extreme, is correct. People who commit crimes in real life aren't given such leniency, and TruckersMP is meant to simulate real life.    

    

['Leo.]

but people are given a driver's license for 2 3 years, then everyone should be given 3 4 5 years.
@Bean

[L-DragO*]

9 minutes ago, 'Leo. said:

but people are given a driver's license for 2 3 years, then everyone should be given 3 4 5 years.
@Bean

nice one bro!

 

[Bеаn]

35 minutes ago, 'Leo. said:

but people are given a driver's license for 2 3 years, then everyone should be given 3 4 5 years.
@Bean

what?

[_raffaele_]

22 hours ago, blabberbeak said:

It appears to be a desperate attempt in keeping their number of players and/ or attracting more players.

 

16 hours ago, Patriktanki said:

ban evading is very different as it literally defeats the purpose of enforcing the rules and banning people. This would be a considerable idea if everyone was caught who is ban evading, but I'm not sure this is the case.

 

 

I agree with both of you in part with what you have said, 

 

In addition, I think there will not be much impact after this rule change, you can see for example the impact after the permaban for the hystory was removed (in May 2022, a year after the convoy mode came out); we have seen the impact that this route of "players change over time" had, trying to bring players back, hardly anything changed in the increased activity on the servers:

 

 

 

 

I would add that, making these drastic changes on how permabans are managed now, is too late to have some significant impact, they should have been made when scs convoy mode was already being rumored to prevent in all possible ways the impact, and when players had no choices for how to play ets2 in multiplayer. Making them now, trying to bring players back after almost 2 years, with convoy mode around, makes as much sense as it does. I speak from work experience more than anything else.

 

I don't see many ways to bring back more players other than to remove the convoy mode completely. Definitely also going the route of "players have changed over time" doesn't make much sense currently, in all this time so many things have changed: players have left tmp completely for convoy mode; they got bored with ets2; they play other games; after the punishments they got, they left tmp out of dissatisfaction; they have less time to play since they have grown up in 7/8 years etc... many different cases that are not strictly related to the rules of the game. Those who left tmp for all those reasons are unlikely to return.

 

Those who evaded the ban did and still do; i've talked to players who have been doing this for years and still here playing. I still hope that there will be more rule changes, and not just this one. I also hope that future decisions will not look to the past and i would focus on something else rather than going down the path of "players change over time".

 

[blabberbeak]

When TruckersMP announced to take pride in "enhance trucking simulation as we know it", it likely didn't refer to judical processes or the administration of justice in the first place.

Against the backdrop of talking about a video game, a comparison to severe real life criminal offenses is therefore going too far.

Please respect the suffering of the victims.

[L-DragO*]

2 minutes ago, blabberbeak said:

When TruckersMP announced to take pride in "enhance trucking simulation as we know it", it likely didn't refer to judical processes or the administration of justice in the first place.

Against the backdrop of talking about a video game, a comparison to severe real life criminal offenses is therefore going too far.

Please respect the suffering of the victims.

For real bro!

  No matter how they call it, it's a game, Games are meant to have fun when you're bored...  this real-life comparison is going too far...

they compare it as if people don't drive recklessly in Real Life.

[L-DragO*]

14 hours ago, Bеаn said:

@'Leo. Hi. It's a simulator; hence there should be a simulation of real life. There doesn't need to be a strict level of simulation, but there should be some resemblance. 

FMO4's comparison, whilst a tad extreme, is correct. People who commit crimes in real life aren't given such leniency, and TruckersMP is meant to simulate real life.    

    

Why do I get the feeling that you are taking this personal.

["RICKY"]

Hello truckers. 

After reading some comments on this post I think they want to make the game a GTA. Just now he went to Steam to see what category the game is in and is in simulation. 

What a simulation game!!! Simulate real life correct??? 

We only ask that the moderation team follow the statute of the game and the rules, because in the applications for the team it says that we have to be knowledgeable about the traffic rules. 

I will continue to report all players who do not follow the TMP rules. 

[Shadel]

Hello,
 

 Like everyone else, I want to express my opinions.Players who did not get smart after receiving a penalty in the game and still continued and filled their rights (5 was forbidden) constantly opened new accounts.They played this way and their accounts were banned indefinitely.They created accounts again and again and again.For some this news is too good their permanent accounts are now active.But the harms of this situation are quite clear and definite.The duisburg-calais road, the busiest place in the game, can now get into even more chaos (due to unlearned and troll players). But now there are people who regret it and use it really well.

For this reason, I think that this update made some people happy while others did not like it.
As a result, the rule update has been renewed, we will see what happens in the coming days.

I hope everything will be alright.

Kind Regards,
Shadel.

[ilian kamenov]

 

I think the previous rule should be retained

[L-DragO*]

2 hours ago, "RICKY" said:

Hello truckers. 

After reading some comments on this post I think they want to make the game a GTA. Just now he went to Steam to see what category the game is in and is in simulation. 

What a simulation game!!! Simulate real life correct??? 

We only ask that the moderation team follow the statute of the game and the rules, because in the applications for the team it says that we have to be knowledgeable about the traffic rules. 

I will continue to report all players who do not follow the TMP rules. 

Okay 

[Foobrother]

Regarding the topic, if you're honest but banned and still want to play there is already a legit system to bypass/cancel the ban called "Appeal". If your appeal got rejected (or you didn't even appeal) that means your ban is deserved. And at this stage trying ban evading is exactly the same as hacking and deliberately breaking the rules. The ban is your warning. Evading it is just deliberately and consciously declaring you don't care about the rules. 

 

So while I understand that banning people in a game for many years can be hard, these people should have a VERY LONG ban! I would do something like 10 times the current ban + 1 more ban in your total ban + the ban for evading shall never be ignored in the total (no matter how long ago the ban for evading was issued).

i.e. you're banned for 1 week because it's your very first ban for a mistake, that means 10 weeks more for ban evading. You're banned for 1 month because that's your 3rd ban in 6 months, that means 10 months additional ban.

 

Like in real life there are people who will change with time and other who won't (at least in the short-term). And it is fair to say that after x number of bans/offences in a certain period (3 bans over 6 months isn't the same as 3 over 3 years) we can admit that these people won't learn/change in the short term. The banning system does make a difference between players having many bans in a short period and ones with much more spaced offences. But it doesn't seem to consider that some players won't change in the short-term.

 

Here is the current rule:

Quote

 

§2.8 - How bans are issued

• The first 3 bans are issued at the staff member’s discretion.
• The 4th ban is thirty days.
• The 5th ban and consecutive bans are ninety days.

 

only 30 days after 4 bans within less than 12 months?!! That's far too friendly.

 

And, as I said in the past, we should be much harder on players getting many bans in short periods. Here are a few examples quickly picked from my recent reports list:

Member since: 02 Feb 2022 01:37
Active bans: 4 

Member since: 14 May 2022 00:26
Active bans: 5

Member since: 02 Nov 2022 20:36
Active bans: 3

Member since: 26 May 2022 21:39
Active bans: 3

Member since: 02 Sep 2022 12:31
Active bans: 3

Member since: 18 Jun 2022 11:30
Active bans: 4

Member since: 18 Feb 2022 16:40
Active bans: 5

All these players are already back on the roads or will come back in the coming weeks. Not fair if you ask me. They've already been warned several times within the last 12 months but still behave badly.

 

I'm ok to be friendly with new players with no ban history or very light history (1-2 bans in 12 months). But we should be VERY HARD with the big offenders like the ones listed above or ban evaders.

 

 

[Peeters Pyatrow]

I’m okey with current punishment system of TruckersMP. If someone has a permanent punishment, it should not be removed. Rule is rule! 

[Bеаn]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:27 AM, L-DragO* said:

Why do I get the feeling that you are taking this personal.

what?

[L-DragO*]

4 hours ago, Bеаn said:

what?

you know what i mean ?

 

[N1ghtRidr]

Well,  No more ban evading means more traffic on the servers and more trolls on the C-D .  

[Bеаn]

On 3/1/2023 at 7:37 PM, L-DragO* said:

you know what i mean ?

 

If I knew what you mean, I wouldn't be asking what, would I?

[Fast-rider]

Firstly, when I heard about the change, I was absolutely shocked about it and completely disagreed. With thinking about it, I saw that there might be players, who were permanently banned for ban evading for a few years and they might have actually changed. 

For now, I don't really see more trolls as there have been before, so I am surprisingly quite neutral about that topic now.