Confusion about right of way and European roundabout laws

[Wariortank07]

Hi, I'm a united states player and I think I'm misunderstanding or not following some laws on the roads like I should be. I want some clarification to make sure I'm following the rules. (I think this is the right place to ask). I was exploring truckers MP HQ, exploring both the city and the sights this being my first event. I went into the roundabout to do a U-turn, and someone had ran straight into the roundabout and rammed me. It caused them to perform beautiful acrobatics as can be seen in the video. I got a lot of negative reactions from it both from the guy and others in the round about (after the video) was i in the wrong? Am I not allowed to do a U-turn in a roundabout like that? I think I was in the right lane...  In USA you are required to yield to those already in the round about or intersection. is it different here if im making a turn like that? https://youtu.be/uCnI9w5mCZI

[Mischievous_Vixen]

Hi Warior, 
There are different round about rules that vary from area to area. I would advise to pay close attention to road signage leading up to the round about, as well as any markers on the road itself. As in some cases, traffic inside the circle has right of way, and in other cases, traffic in round about yields to those coming into it. 
An example of a 'Right of Way' sign: 

An example of a 'Yield' sign: 

I watched the provided video, and in your particular case and the 2 lane round about, you have to yield to the outer lane when leaving the inner lane.

[Wariortank07]

I had seen the double yield signs on both lanes when I entered the roundabout, and thought it was the case that both lanes had to yield. But the statement that the inside lane must yield to outside lane does make sense. As those alot of times are either right or straight ahead lanes even in US… so if im understanding this correctly that situation is 100% my fault. Correct? 

[Mischievous_Vixen]

In my opinion, yes that is correct. Also if I'm being honest, you could have signaled earlier with your turn signal. The other player seems to have actually been going an appropriate  speed through the round about and could have potentially had time to react and avoid the collision. 

Disclaimer: I'm not an admin, so their opinions/verdicts could be different from mine. 

[Wariortank07]

I did infact make a mental note of the turn signal. That was one of the first things i knew couldve been done differently. I forgot to state that in my original post.. whoops..

Well.. if i get punished for it so be it. Now that i think about it this is probably part of the reason why you dont see USA players on ETSMP often. It’s impossible for a foreigner to determine the right thing to do in a situation like this without being in one area for an extended amount of time. Defensive and Cautious driving be damned i still found a way to break a rule.. on accident. 

[chaotic-control]

Hey, from your video, you had right of way / priority.
The player joining the roundabout has the yield / give way 'upside down triangle' signs, just as you did when you entered the roundabout yourself.

 

In terms of lanes, you were correct to enter the roundabout in the left hand lane, and use the inside lane of the roundabout.
When you want to exit a roundabout, common practice should be to signal right, after the exit before your exit, and move to the right lane, and then exit.

 

Ultimately, the player driving into you is at fault 100%.

[Sunstrider]

After watching the video, you could of indicated sooner. However, you had right of way. The player joining didn't yield at all. Save that video for an appeal (if you get banned).

 

You can @ name to ping somebody, @Sunstrider. Or, you can quote a message. This gives a notification and your reply can also help direct to who you are talking to.

 

If you are confused, i recommend watching Youtube Videos about European Roundabouts. Or do this:

• Make a new profile and play Single Player.
• In your ETS 2 Documents, find config. Edit it.
• Change "g_developer" to 1. Pressing 0 will enable a fly cam. Movement speed can be adjusted with the scroll wheel on your mouse.
• Change "g_traffic" to 10 (if you have a beefy pc. if not, try 5). This alters the amount of ai traffic that will spawn. 10, is basically holiday rush hour.
• Find a roundabout, park off the road, go into fly cam, and just watch the traffic flow through it.

 

The concept is basically the same in America. Those joining have to yield for any traffic not taking the turn. When safe, they may proceed.

[Mischievous_Vixen]

Attached image is a few frames before he's temporarily out of frame. However, he has technically entered the round about. At this point, OP's turn signal is not on yet.
So in this round about scenario, was OP not supposed to yield to those in the outside lane?

Like if op was in outside lane and got hit, then I'd agree, other driver at fault.

Curious if anyone from that area of Poland can enlighten us.

[L-DR@GO]

Sometimes what I really don't like about some drivers in TMP is...

They are never patient..

Someone is already making turn on the Roundabout..

Why not just wait...

He was in the roundabout before you ...

Just wait gosh

 

Bro.. @Wariortank07 always use your signal...

It's very important 

 

Whenever am driving and am trying to enter or come out of any intersection..

Am very careful

 

If I noticed the other driver is not slowing down for me to pass 

 

I don't care if am wrong or right..

I just slow down and wait for you to fly to whatever place your trying to reach 

 

"In my country on every roundabout

You always wait for someone coming from your left"

[Granite [SVK]]

Some people here claim you having right of way in that situation, while in fact you did not have right of way, or at least it's debatable.

It would be true if the roundabout did not have two lanes. You were in the inside lane, cutting through the outiside lane, if that was occupied, when exiting the roundabout, you would have to be very careful.

It all depends on the size of roundabout, and with truck and trailer, you would want to stay on the outside as much as possible, when exiting from inside lane, always watch your right (left in UK), when side by side, you would probably want to yield, when vehicle in the outside lane is behind you, you are allowed to exit in front of them legally.  (If you do this in singleplayer, AI in outside lane will smash youy, in reversed roles, they will wait in the inside lane for you to pass).

In real life, it's not as straightforward however, the truck entering roundabout would typically stop or creep slowly when approaching roundabout when there is traffic already inside.

However it was not case here, the player that rammed you should have stopped before entering, he was also cutting straight to the inside lane as well, so they are 100% at fault here.

 

Remember this is TMP,  where people don't look and don't slow down or brake. To prevent this, always exit roundabout from outside lane, and when entering, always yield to both lanes, you will always be on the safe side that way.

 

It is also false claim that vehicles entering roundabout always has to yield.

Roundabout is treated as any other intersection, same rules apply, if there was no signage you would have to yield to vehicles on your right (left in UK), however 100% of the time there is signage, and 99% of the time, yield sign is in front of the roundabout and typically, there are no signs inside the roundabout, but there may be road markings that need to be followed. Handful of roundabouts exist in ETS2 where it's different and vehicles entering have right of way, these are found in Russia and Türkiye.

Some roundabout may have bypass lanes where you are typically free to enter, but have to yield when exiting (yield sign), you can also find roundabouts with traffic lights, in Spain mostly.

[Wariortank07]

Ok, thank you guys for helping, And for being nice. Once again.. Just an american trying to learn the rules and follow them to the best of my ability, there are still things that do no make sense to me, would it have been better for me to simply use the outside lane on that specific round about if not most round abouts? Other then that, look at signage closer then i have been, slow down, be more careful/vigilant then i have been. And always use the turn signal. Even though i didn’t look around with my camera i was scanning the round about and the map with my eyes. Next time ill turn my head or go to third person. 
 

I would like to believe im doing the right thing and asking people instead of simply leaving it be and/or assuming i was in the right based on my own laws in my country. Ive seen alot of people do that in TMP (and they get banned for that mentality) i really don’t want to get banned for something like that or really in general…like most people

 

i did look back at the video and the guy appeared to have a yield sign above the roundabout sign.. (of course its backwards to me so I can’t tell if something else would be on it) unless once again.. its another thing i don’t understand.

 

[Wariortank07]

12 hours ago, Sunstrider said:

Change "g_developer" to 1. Pressing 0 will enable a fly cam. Movement speed can be adjusted with the scroll wheel on your mouse.

Thank you, ive been meaning to find the freecam option but couldn’t figure it out. I guess its safe to say im ok then? I still have some motivation to play TMP so i will, ill just avoid some more populated areas for my own sake for the moment. This event was a good trial run. I know what to expect now i know that my pc can handle it. I know what to do in the situation. 

[MrSirViking]

20 hours ago, Wariortank07 said:

Hi, I'm a united states player and I think I'm misunderstanding or not following some laws on the roads like I should be. I want some clarification to make sure I'm following the rules. (I think this is the right place to ask). I was exploring truckers MP HQ, exploring both the city and the sights this being my first event. I went into the roundabout to do a U-turn, and someone had ran straight into the roundabout and rammed me. It caused them to perform beautiful acrobatics as can be seen in the video. I got a lot of negative reactions from it both from the guy and others in the round about (after the video) was i in the wrong? Am I not allowed to do a U-turn in a roundabout like that? I think I was in the right lane...  In USA you are required to yield to those already in the round about or intersection. is it different here if im making a turn like that? https://youtu.be/uCnI9w5mCZI

So first of all you drove correctly into the round about. But as this is a round about where the exits has only one road out you did not exit correctly. See the image i attached. Since you turned too late you let the person at the entrance before your exit into the roundabout. By doing as i showed in the image you change into the first lane just at the exit before. That way you block the person at the entrance from entering the round about unless they fail their yield of cause. And it gives you access to exit the lane exit you want.

[Wariortank07]

2 minutes ago, MrSirViking said:

See the image i attached.

Thank you, this helps alot. Much appreciated, this provides a much better understanding of the situation and what happened. I didn’t think i was allowed to switch lanes in the round about like that which is why i hadn’t. 

[Guest Misha_TMP]

In that case, I would choose to give in to the other player

[Sunstrider]

6 hours ago, Wariortank07 said:

Thank you, ive been meaning to find the freecam option but couldn’t figure it out. I guess its safe to say im ok then? I still have some motivation to play TMP so i will, ill just avoid some more populated areas for my own sake for the moment. This event was a good trial run. I know what to expect now i know that my pc can handle it. I know what to do in the situation. 

Glad to have helped. The Veteran Banner isn't just for decoration.

 

You can avoid populated areas. But you might as well be server kicked doing so. Because, that's basically what the rest of the map is.

 

Just remember, always assume other drivers won't abide to the driving rules. If you want to see clips and montages from my career, send me a message. And even if you do know, there's always somebody who will be unexpected.

[MrSirViking]

2 hours ago, Wariortank07 said:

Thank you, this helps alot. Much appreciated, this provides a much better understanding of the situation and what happened. I didn’t think i was allowed to switch lanes in the round about like that which is why i hadn’t. 

I realized that all exits in the roundabout you where in, where all two lane exits. So in case all the exits are one lane exits then you do what i drew, but in this case where they are all two lane exits then what you did is correct. You should have turned out slightly earlier but what you did is correct. Since all the right most entrance lanes should always exit the first exit coming up just like the red arrow in your first image, that means that the second exit lane should always be free for you to exit out into. The right most yellow arrow should never happen. And so the guy that hit you is doing something wrong as they did not exit out the same exit as you. It should look like the image here

[Interstate Nomad]

Traffic regulations of roundabouts can vary from country to country within Europe.

 

Here are some examples. Let's start with Portugal.

I think the pictures are selfexplanatory.

 

 

 

 

 

(Source: https://www.circulaseguro.pt/corretamente-as-rotundas/)

 

 

And here from France .

Please note that in France originally the traffic entering the roundabout has priority! But in most cases, this rule has been revised by a give-way sign at the entrances of the roundabout.

 

(Source: https://www.lepermislibre.fr/permis-conduire/conseils-conduite/comment-prendre-rond-point)

 

(Source: https://www.ufcquechoisir-brest.org/loisirs-transports-les-rondspoints-la-bonne-facon-de-les-prendre-pxl-33_488.html)

 

 

I hope this helps you to understand the difficulties of entering and exiting roundabouts.

Safe travels!

[Granite [SVK]]

12 hours ago, MrSirViking said:

So first of all you drove correctly into the round about.

Notice the guy cut straight into the inner lane behind OP, while outer lane was free, hitting rear of their truck. That pretty much equals to rear-ending someone while they are turning, so it's totally that guy's fault, no matter if they could see turn signal or not - they were just way too close and fast.

That's TMP though, 90% people treat roundabouts like chicane.

[Foobrother]

Ultimately it's the other player who is to blame for this collision. BUT you've done 3 major mistakes which favoured this to happen:

1. You don't indicate to show that you're doing a U-Turn. The others don't see your Left-Turn signal On (because you didn't activate it) and assume you will exit at the previous exit which is what 90% of the players in your context are doing
2. After passing the last exit, you don't turn On your Right-Turn signal straightaway and the players coming into the roundabout might think you will continue turning in the roundabout instead of moving right to exit
3. You start indicating and moving towards the exit super late. Which makes the other drivers think you're NOT exiting the roundabout there but at the next exit. Check the Green car (when it comes from the left) in that GIF example (that's exactly what you should have done):   As a result they anticipate you're continuing in the roundabout and when you make this sudden direction change it's too late. 

At the end of the day, it's still mainly the fault of the other who shouldn't touch you and control his truck. But you clearly didn't do this U-Turn properly.

 

Also something to consider when playing TMP and which could explain why other players were also angry: not many people do a U-Turn there and 90% of the time people exit at the previous exit.

[Granite [SVK]]

18 minutes ago, Foobrother said:

You don't indicate to show that you're doing a U-Turn. The others don't see your Left-Turn signal On (because you didn't activate it) and assume you will exit at the previous exit which is what 90% of the players in your context are doing

In many EU countries it's not required and not a habit to use left signal in a roundabout, unless you are changing lanes, if you are not indicating, it means you are not taking an exit, only right signal before exiting is required by law.

Is it really required by law in France or it's only a habit? Certainly not in Poland, where the video takes place. They way I see this, it can be confusing when there are two or more lanes, and in smaller roundabouts, others will not even be able to see your left indicator very well, or even at all anyway, and it's just simple - you don't see right turn signal, stop.

[Foobrother]

21 minutes ago, Granite [SVK] said:

In many EU countries it's not required and not a habit to use left signal in a roundabout, unless you are changing lanes, if you are not indicating, it means you are not taking an exit, only right signal before exiting is required by law.

Is it really required by law in France or it's only a habit? Certainly not in Poland, where the video takes place. They way I see this, it can be confusing when there are two or more lanes, and in smaller roundabouts, others will not even be able to see your left indicator very well, or even at all anyway, and it's just simple - you don't see right turn signal, stop.

Yeah maybe. I wasn't strictly speaking thinking about the exact laws in EU when I replied but more about what is the norm in EU. From experience driving in EU that's what the majority of people do. Simply because it's the safest approach.

But yeah if Wariortank07 wants to check the laws, we need to check the Polish laws to be 100% correct for the video.

[Interstate Nomad]

Here is another explanation video (France):

 

(Source:https://frankreich-mobil-erleben.de/Verkehr-mehr/Kreisverkehr/index.php/)

 

At multi-lane traffic roundabouts, vehicles in the inner lanes have priority, and vehicles driving in the outer lane must give way.

 

 

On 11/27/2023 at 12:46 PM, Granite [SVK] said:

In many EU countries it's not required and not a habit to use left signal in a roundabout, unless you are changing lanes, if you are not indicating, it means you are not taking an exit, only right signal before exiting is required by law.

Is it really required by law in France or it's only a habit?

 

In general, anyone driving on a traffic circle has right of way. However, there are exceptions to this rule, particularly at many large traffic circles in Paris such as the Arc de Triomphe or Bastille. With the exception of the Arc de Triumphe traffic circle, however, all traffic circles have road markings that clearly indicate right before left.

 

When entering, signal right if you want to take the first exit.

For the second exit, signal right shortly before the second exit.

Signal left BEFORE entering the traffic circle if you want to leave the traffic circle on the left or do a complete turn.

Always signal right before leaving the traffic circle.

If there are two lanes into the roundabout, always take the right lane if in doubt.

Get into the left-hand lane if you want to take the third or any other exit. However, getting into the left-hand lane is not compulsory.

(Source: https://www.idprovence.com/autofahren-in-frankreich.html)

 

 

 

*** EDIT****

 

Two rules can apply at French traffic circles. If it is a "giratoire", the car that is already in the roundabout has right of way.

The reverse is true for a "rond-point". Here, the rule "right before left" is applied. As both types of roundabout are marked with the same traffic sign, drivers must always follow the priority signs.

In 90% of cases, French roundabouts are "giratoires" - in this case, traffic sign 205 (give way) is displayed in front of each traffic circle entrance. On rond-points, on the other hand, this sign is located inside the traffic circle before every exit.

 

(Source: https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/frankreich/)

 

 

[FernandoCR [ESP]]

There's another thing that should be checked. I know for certain that in some countries, heavy vehicles are required to use ALWAYS the outer lane while in a roundabout. All of the examples mentioned here are OK for cars, but I believe that in most places in Europe, the regulations for trucks are not always the same as for cars.

[Foobrother]

19 hours ago, FernandoCR [ESP] said:

There's another thing that should be checked. I know for certain that in some countries, heavy vehicles are required to use ALWAYS the outer lane while in a roundabout. All of the examples mentioned here are OK for cars, but I believe that in most places in Europe, the regulations for trucks are not always the same as for cars.

Well, in most roundabouts, due to the lack of space and short turning angle, trucks (with trailers) do have to remain on the outer side of the roundabout (and often use 2 lanes). But your question remains for the big roundabout with more than 2 lanes or with wide lanes.