ETS2MP 4 Trailer Parts Limit

[Swerve (BY-7 - USA)]

Suggestion Name: ETS2MP 4 Trailer Parts Limit

Suggestion Description: increase the max trailer part limit from 3 to 4 in Finland only

Any example images: please see attached files

Why it should be added: I am an avid double and triple trailer driver. I spend the most amount of time in them (my Volvo HCT and Scania triple box trailers have over 100000 km on them). I like long and heavy combinations, they introduce their own challenges to my own TMP gameplay (and I know some other players would love to try driving longer combinations). And having a job dispatcher also allows me to load them up to max trailer volume which is awesome (this is the reason why I play exclusively in TMP: triple trailers loaded to the max via job dispatcher). I would like to increase the trailer part limit for Finland only from 3 to 4 as in my own testing at least half the depots can accommodate the increase in trailer length. Finland is also not very populated throughout the day so the risk of inexperienced player causing a disaster for others on the road is extremely minimal. A barrier could be introduced @ the ferry in Naantali, Finland that if people take it they will be kicked (we had something like this before for double trailers around Calais), as well as border crossing into Russia that after pressing ENTER for document check the player is kicked. Example pics of possible trailer combinations with 4 trailer parts are attached. 

[Hawkmusen]

I think the producer of the game can do this, and although it is not allowed in busy places, very long trailers can be a problem in traffic.

[Swerve (BY-7 - USA)]

If by producer of the game you meant SCS then no they won't do it because the original game follows irl trailer laws and regulations (or at the very least tries to do it as much as possible everywhere).

[ALLIANCE _Thyagoof]

Although I also like driving these types of trailers, unfortunately this idea will not work at TMP, in my opinion. Not all players know how to drive a truck with multiple trailers. Despite this, there is also the issue of lag. Another detail, who should increase or decrease the limit is SCS. It is worth mentioning that Euro Truck simulates real life, if SCS has not yet increased the trailer limit in Finland, perhaps this type of trailer set does not exist there.

[Swerve (BY-7 - USA)]

Valid concerns, but that is why I propose to only allow it in Finland, NOT everywhere on the map. The depots outside of Finland are mostly average sized not fit to accept such long trailers, so using 4 trailer parts trailers outside of Finland would be pointless since you cannot pick up/unload the cargo.
As for the who should increase the trailer limit, it's TMP as they do not follow SCS regulations. If they were, trailers like HCT would not be allowed outside of Finland as SCS intended, yet we can drive with them everywhere on the map.

[Sunstrider]

First off, welcome to the forum. You can quote and ping (@ name = @Swerve (BY-7 - USA)). Which sends a notification to them if they have the setting on.

 

As for your suggestion. I'm going to have to say no for these reasons

1. The obvious one being length. Not only would corners be an even tighter line to not get stuck. But trying to reverse them in around a small company is probably a no-go.
2. They can't be save edited. As they affect the vehicles hitbox from triples.
3. Do you know how many would want to bring this on CD Road AND Kirkenes Quarry Road? It would just end up with the player being banned because they had to take wider turns, or is blocking a lane/the road.
4. SCS will not support this idea if you suggest it to them. They are a realistic company. Not your BeamNG Playground.
5. TMP will not add this. Not only is it restricted to a single country on an outdated scale. But driving quad's will require master level experience.

Find me evidence of Quad's being used in Finland AND being handled professionally and then i'll see about reconsidering my stance on it.

[Hockerto.]

I think that longer trailer combinations will not help traffic problems. A lot of people are not even able to control a normal trailer, not to mention a double- or triple-trailer.

If you would add even longer combinations, the probabilty of road blockages would increase and traffic jams would get longer. Even if you only allow trailers in certain areas, there would still be trouble with a lot of people.

I think that you will need to play in the SP if you want to drive longer combinations than a 3-trailer-combo as this change is probably unlikely to come.

[Niuro]

16 hours ago, Swerve (BY-7 - USA) said:

Suggestion Name: ETS2MP 4 Trailer Parts Limit

Suggestion Description: increase the max trailer part limit from 3 to 4 in Finland only

Any example images: please see attached files

Why it should be added: I am an avid double and triple trailer driver. I spend the most amount of time in them (my Volvo HCT and Scania triple box trailers have over 100000 km on them). I like long and heavy combinations, they introduce their own challenges to my own TMP gameplay (and I know some other players would love to try driving longer combinations). And having a job dispatcher also allows me to load them up to max trailer volume which is awesome (this is the reason why I play exclusively in TMP: triple trailers loaded to the max via job dispatcher). I would like to increase the trailer part limit for Finland only from 3 to 4 as in my own testing at least half the depots can accommodate the increase in trailer length. Finland is also not very populated throughout the day so the risk of inexperienced player causing a disaster for others on the road is extremely minimal. A barrier could be introduced @ the ferry in Naantali, Finland that if people take it they will be kicked (we had something like this before for double trailers around Calais), as well as border crossing into Russia that after pressing ENTER for document check the player is kicked. Example pics of possible trailer combinations with 4 trailer parts are attached. 

I am aginst this. There is one very LARGE reason - these create lag, a lot of L.A.G . These should be banned along local mods and save edits.

[Swerve (BY-7 - USA)]

@Somehow Lucky You didn't read carefully what I am proposing, just like every single player who replied... *sigh* Let me explain your points:

 

1. These trailers if approved to be limited strictly to FINLAND ONLY AND ONLY THERE - I do not want them anywhere else as they will be useless since depots outside of Finland are much smaller.

2. ??? I literally saved edited these trailers in, drove with them in SP with no issues around traffic and other obstructions, so I am not sure what you're trying to say.

3.  No one would be able to bring these to C-D, see 1. for why.

4. SCS follows irl trailer restrictions and regulations, these trailers have nothing to do with them so there is no reason to ask them to add these.

5. TMP is an arcade, they do not follow SCS trailer rules since they allow HCT and triple trailers everywhere on the map. Allowing these in Finland only does not contradict anything.

 

@Hockerto @Борислав Please read my reply above CAREFULLY with explanations what I am talking about. As for the lag, there are barely any players in Finland to cause issues if it is to happen...

[Hockerto.]

1 hour ago, Swerve (BY-7 - USA) said:

@Somehow Lucky You didn't read carefully what I am proposing, just like every single player who replied... *sigh* Let me explain your points:

 

1. These trailers if approved to be limited strictly to FINLAND ONLY AND ONLY THERE - I do not want them anywhere else as they will be useless since depots outside of Finland are much smaller.

2. ??? I literally saved edited these trailers in, drove with them in SP with no issues around traffic and other obstructions, so I am not sure what you're trying to say.

3.  No one would be able to bring these to C-D, see 1. for why.

4. SCS follows irl trailer restrictions and regulations, these trailers have nothing to do with them so there is no reason to ask them to add these.

5. TMP is an arcade, they do not follow SCS trailer rules since they allow HCT and triple trailers everywhere on the map. Allowing these in Finland only does not contradict anything.

 

@Hockerto @Борислав Please read my reply above CAREFULLY with explanations what I am talking about. As for the lag, there are barely any players in Finland to cause issues if it is to happen...

Even if you would limit the usability to Finland only, I am still against this suggestion. First of all, Finland could get very crowded since everyone wants to try these new trailers. Also, Finland is not a that big of a country, so there would really not be many options to use this trailer.

Also, Players can quickly find a way to use this trailer outside of Finland, for example with Truck & Trailer Changer. So you would need to find a way to avoid them using it at all. I do not know if that would be possible.

[[ S.PLH ] Warrior]

My only concern is how is the truck and trailer reacting with turning and acceleration/breaking and what about the hitbox ? 

Of course everything is possible in single player with safe edit you can even go longer then 4

[Swerve (BY-7 - USA)]

1 hour ago, [S.PLH]Warrior said:

My only concern is how is the truck and trailer reacting with turning and acceleration/breaking and what about the hitbox ? 

Of course everything is possible in single player with safe edit you can even go longer then 4

 

Acceleration is obviously reduced given the fact that empty trailers weigh nearly 20 t with cargo load of approximately 65 t on top of that. But they are still lighter than my silo B-triple loaded with stone dust. Gross combination weight for my 6x4 Volvo pulling B-triple silo is 112 t, I have driven it across the map from Finland all the way down to Romania (I will attach a pic from one of the Rock Eater depot in Romania; the combination is quite long because each trailer is full size). I have encountered no issues so far with either acceleration or braking (of course one has to be mindful of the weight, keep the distance from vehicle in front, anticipate potential situations, etc.). In terms of hitbox issue, I will admit I am not 100% sure what it is about, but this could be tested on a small private server with me and 1-2 admins following me as I deliver a test cargo from 1 depot to another in Finland, and observe what is happening (if that all is possible of course).
 

[Sunstrider]

13 hours ago, Swerve (BY-7 - USA) said:

@Somehow Lucky You didn't read carefully what I am proposing, just like every single player who replied... *sigh* Let me explain your points:

 

1. These trailers if approved to be limited strictly to FINLAND ONLY AND ONLY THERE - I do not want them anywhere else as they will be useless since depots outside of Finland are much smaller.

2. ??? I literally saved edited these trailers in, drove with them in SP with no issues around traffic and other obstructions, so I am not sure what you're trying to say.

3.  No one would be able to bring these to C-D, see 1. for why.

4. SCS follows irl trailer restrictions and regulations, these trailers have nothing to do with them so there is no reason to ask them to add these.

5. TMP is an arcade, they do not follow SCS trailer rules since they allow HCT and triple trailers everywhere on the map. Allowing these in Finland only does not contradict anything.

 

@Hockerto @Борислав Please read my reply above CAREFULLY with explanations what I am talking about. As for the lag, there are barely any players in Finland to cause issues if it is to happen...

I fully read all suggestions before i make my replies.

 

That's great you save edited in SP and had no issues driving it. That's because you're dealing with scripted AI who know how to react to your vehicle. MP, is a different story. Might as well save edit 80 trailers and play Snake while you're at it. All that weight is just an anchor for the truck, even when empty.

 

Why do you want this in ONLY FINLAND?

The country is super small. Like a reply said, all they have to do is be kicked from the server and then reconnect anywhere else on the map. Now they had their snake train driving around outside Finland.

 

It doesn't lag when there's 1 player. Once news gets out that this was added to the game, those wanting to try it will swarm to Finland. If 90 players with anywhere from 90-180 trailers lags lower end machines. It will only take about 45 players to induce that same lag.

[Swerve (BY-7 - USA)]

@Somehow Lucky You claim to have read my original proposal carefully but at the same time you're asking me why I want this in Finland only, really? The answer to that question is at the very beginning in the original posting, I will quote it here: "I would like to increase the trailer part limit for Finland only from 3 to 4 as in my own testing at least half the depots can accommodate the increase in trailer length" + another explanation in my first reply to you: "I do not want them anywhere else as they will be useless since depots outside of Finland are much smaller"

 

I understand your point in MP players being different behavior compare to AI traffic, but at this point it's all speculation because no one has done it before - we do not have any evidence for or against it. As for the 80 trailers, that's going into the nonsense territory, which is quite pointless...

 

I disagree with your statement that just by disconnecting the players will somehow "be able to use this outside of Finland." Currently upon connecting to the server the system checks how many trailers you have attached to your truck, if it's >3 you get kicked, so we do have a check for it. All the TMP devs have to do is add a couple of lines of code that would check location, something like "if trailer count = 4, check if country = Finland, else = kick" - that's it, piece of cake, nobody can bypass that. We already had a system that in real time used to check if you have double trailers, warn you when you were getting close to Calais-Duisburg area, and then would kick you if you didn't turn around. Implementing something like this again (or even simpler with a kick how I described) should be a no brainer, so that's not a concern to me at all.

 

Yes that is true that Finland might get an influx of players wanting to try that, but I do not think it's going to be a problem. Here is why. C-D is the most populated area on the entire map, during peak player hours taking a random sample of say 20 players together (not cherry picking them from random locations), how many will be pulling a triple trailer behind? 3-4, maybe 5 tops? Now remember, that's 5/20 with triple trailers. They are allowed on C-D (which to me is stupid, they should be banned there, too many people, doubles max, but I don't make the rules). Anyone can drive with them there, and yet we see so little. Meaning the demand for and desire among players to use triple trailers is very small. So if my suggestion is approved, I have doubts that all of a sudden we will see hundreds of players flooding to Finland to drive those, because 1) country is small and not popular, and 2) you can only use these trailers there, which is bad for vast majority of players who think C-D is what TMP is all about: if they can't use it on C-D, they are not interested (note: I know I am speculating there, but this is based on my personal observations).

 

Yes, new stuff in the game are always popular. Take for example recent rework of say Hamburg and Kiel. After the update there were over a hundred players in each city, but how many were there after 2 weeks? 30-40 tops at peak hours, and in Kiel at one time on the weekend when I logged in when there were 3300 people on the server there were just 9 players around me. So I'm arguing that even though the influx of players to Finland might be high, it will quickly drop after a week or so once everyone tries it a few times and goes back to C-D.

[Sunstrider]

1 hour ago, Swerve (BY-7 - USA) said:

We already had a system that in real time used to check if you have double trailers, warn you when you were getting close to Calais-Duisburg area, and then would kick you if you didn't turn around. Implementing something like this again (or even simpler with a kick how I described) should be a no brainer, so that's not a concern to me at all.

No such system exists anymore. I've driven doubles on CD Today. No warning. No kick. And i've seen others driving triples.

 

Jump to 2:29.

[Swerve (BY-7 - USA)]

 Of course such system doesn't exist, because it was removed when restrictions were lifted long time ago. What's your point, I don't understand? Yes, the system doesn't exist anymore, that's correct, and?

 

Why would people be kicked on C-D for driving doubles and triples when they are ALLOWED by current game rules? Again, what is your point you're trying to make?

[Volvo_855R]

Tbh I’m on board with allowing these, and 5 part trailers, on the Sim 2 server. The people that don’t want to deal with these can just use the Sim 1 server. Another thing, their is a clause in the rules (I don’t know the exact number) that states that a mod can kick a player if the player is not able to control the trailer he is operating. Additionally, I’ve done the entire C-D with a 5 part trailer without any hiccups, and I am able to reverse the trailer into most of the wear houses. Of course this doesn’t apply to all the players. Finally, not everyone is going to use a 4 or 5 part trailer. I think that about 1/2 of all the people that use a triple will opt to use a quad or quintuple.

 

TLDR; not everyone will use them, and the mods reserve the right to kick people who can’t control their trailers.