Update to our Game Moderation Strategy

[Foobrother]

12 hours ago, El Reja said:

I'm not being rude, i'm telling the truth that you don't want to hear and still, you wanna discuss things that won't change cause you have an incorrect view on them. If you take my comments personal, is because you don't have the ability to understand and have a serious discussion where we, staff members, are being constantly being attacked by the same group of people (and fun fact, most of them don't even play TMP anymore).

 

Once again, i never said that we don't have mistakes. Everyone does, and that's why we have GMLs, Trainers and Managers that are constantly reviewing our work. I won't explain how we work internally because i would be breaking the ISP, and that kinda triggers me because i'd really like to tell u how things are done so u can understand what we all are trying to say. 

Regarding veteran players and stuff, being an old player doesn't mean you know how to deal with things that have internal rules and guides lol. Of course you will have experience with the game itself, but when it's related to moderation, only members that have been part of this team know and understand why we do X thing in X situation, so, explaining that to the public is quite complicated because most of them times they all think that we do the things in a wrong way, when in fact, they are the ones that don't know how to judge a situation properly.

 

Being "new" or "old" on this community changes nothing when it comes to moderation, because as i said several times and i keep repeating myself, we have to go through specific trainings and trial periods where no matter how old you are, you learn what your trainer teachs you. 

 

Now, talking about GM Leaders and how they review our work, it's quite known that every GML has their own small group of GMs/RMs and he/she is in charge of reviewing their work alongside GMMs. source: https://prnt.sc/_C9CgQlPD-6J 

Considering that every GML has their own group of staff members, it's easier for them to check reports, appeals, bans and other internal things in order to see if the staff member is working correctly as per our public and internal rules. As an extra, GMMs also work with them and everything is easier up there, so, as i said before, there's no need to let players judge our work if we already have experienced staff members who do that all the time. 

You have a wrong "understanding" on how GMLs work.  Please take a look at the KB article "TruckersMP Ranks" so you can understand what every role is about. They all have to review the work of every staff members regardless if there's an appeal/feedback, i don't know why you say that they are mainly involved when there's an appeal or feedback ticket, to be honest.

 

And now talking about the last sentence, you've been discussing that in your last few posts. You want to see the punishments because you want to know if the ban length and stuff are correctly issued. Again, you don't know that because you don't have access to our guides and internal rules. There's no point in letting you see that because you are the one reporting, the punishment is up to us.

So to resume, we can't say anything because there are "internal rules" and things you can't say to normal players 

Even if that's true, that's a poor and quite bad way of treating normal players. Don't see why all the rules can't be published? Are you checking sexual orientation of players or age, nationality etc... before deciding of the punishments?! 

I find it funny that all arguments we have with staff always end up with "there are some internal stuff we do that I can't mention here which explain why I'm right!" 

 

In that case, one advise: just remove any information about bans/kicks etc... from the rules. And replace it with "we will process reports using internal rules that we can't communicate and apply a punishment that you won't see for internal reason". At least that's more logical 

 

Regarding GM Leads you're still not answering my question: how can a couple of GM Leads review 100% of the reports processed by dozens of Moderators?

Are you gonna answer again: "I can't give you the details, but we have some internal tools and ways of working that allow us to review everything perfectly!" 

 

Finally as @blabberbeak pointed out, you're not reading or understanding what I'm saying and keep on thinking I want to do your job or decide of the punishments for you. Wrong. I just want to raise errors when I see them (like I have done in the past). Read again.

[Bеаn]

35 minutes ago, Foobrother said:

So to resume, we can't say anything because there are "internal rules" and things you can't say to normal players

 

As it has been for years now, staff will always support other staff members. Staff members will very rarely express their personal feelings. Why? Because they are afraid of losing their role and/or violating the all-important NDA. Though, it only tends to emerge when they are backed into a corner and have no other way to respond — you may call it a "get out of jail free" card. 

The best staff members, in my opinion, are those who remain silent. It's better to stay mute than to become involved in something and then turn round and say we can't say anything. 

Rant:

Now, unlike a certain person makes out, I don't have any problems with TruckersMP as a whole. However, when they make silly, unexplained changes like this, I expect to be able to voice my opinion without being told I'm making it all up, creating "fairy tales," or inventing conspiracy theories. 

As I've now mentioned countless times, all I, and I believe many others, are asking for is a clear reason for the changes in question and some way for reporters to identify if the punishments are either temporary or permanent. We don't want gobbledygook from NDA-restrained staff members. 

If the aforementioned individual wishes to respond with more head-up-their-own-backside comments, please don't waste your time. 
 

[El Reja]

1 hour ago, Foobrother said:

So to resume, we can't say anything because there are "internal rules" and things you can't say to normal players 

Even if that's true, that's a poor and quite bad way of treating normal players. Don't see why all the rules can't be published? Are you checking sexual orientation of players or age, nationality etc... before deciding of the punishments?! 

I find it funny that all arguments we have with staff always end up with "there are some internal stuff we do that I can't mention here which explain why I'm right!" 

 

In that case, one advise: just remove any information about bans/kicks etc... from the rules. And replace it with "we will process reports using internal rules that we can't communicate and apply a punishment that you won't see for internal reason". At least that's more logical 

 

Regarding GM Leads you're still not answering my question: how can a couple of GM Leads review 100% of the reports processed by dozens of Moderators?

Are you gonna answer again: "I can't give you the details, but we have some internal tools and ways of working that allow us to review everything perfectly!" 

 

Finally as @blabberbeak pointed out, you're not reading or understanding what I'm saying and keep on thinking I want to do your job or decide of the punishments for you. Wrong. I just want to raise errors when I see them (like I have done in the past). Read again.

I'm wasting my time with people who will argue everything we do and explain, and even if you get access to those rules and all u wanna know, i'm completely sure that you will still argue everything just cause u can and it's free lol. 

 

If u don't wanna understand what we try to explain, then feel free to keep complaining, nothing is gonna change and you will only lose your time.

Not gonna argue on this topic anymore, so, have fun!

2 hours ago, blabberbeak said:

 

I also thought it wasn't really complicated to understand @Foobrother's posts, and still you fail to get his point with a quite remarkable persistence while repeating the same old song of him not being the ones issuing the punishment over and over again.

 

That's why have to ask you the following personal question. Feel free to respond or not.

Are you suffering from a mental illness?

Bro can't understand what we explain and i'm the one apparently suffering a "mental illness"

U too mate, have fun over here! 

[StateCA [NL]]

25 minutes ago, Bеаn said:

 

As it has been for years now, staff will always support other staff members. Staff members will very rarely express their personal feelings. Why? Because they are afraid of losing their role and/or violating the all-important NDA. Though, it only tends to emerge when they are backed into a corner and have no other way to respond — you may call it a "get out of jail free" card. 

The best staff members, in my opinion, are those who remain silent. It's better to stay mute than to become involved in something and then turn round and say we can't say anything.

Alright I am curious. What exactly makes you think this, though? Can you name one example of team member who has been removed for expressing their personal feelings about changes?

 

[Interstate Nomad]

7 minutes ago, El Reja said:

Bro can't understand what we explain and i'm the one apparently suffering a "mental illness"

 

I was serious when I asked if you were suffering from it. I didn't say you did.

However your answer proves what me and others have already suspected. You don't read and/ or understand the content of our posts.

[Bеаn]

14 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

Can you name one example of team member who has been removed for expressing their personal feelings about changes?

Did I say staff members have been removed? No. So, no I cannot provide an example of something I never said happens. Its pretty well-know that a number of staff members don't express their true feelings here, though. And, if they weren't afraid of breaking the NDA, they wouldn't say "we can't say this" and "we can't say that". 

 

14 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

Because they are afraid of losing their role and/or violating the all-important NDA

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a staff member does violate the NDA, they're removed?

[StateCA [NL]]

4 minutes ago, Bеаn said:

Did I say staff members have been removed? No. So, no I cannot provide an example of something I never said happens. Its pretty well-know that a number of staff members don't express their true feelings here, though. And, if they weren't afraid of breaking the NDA, they wouldn't say "we can't say this" and "we can't say that". 

 

Correct if I'm wrong, but if a staff member does violate the NDA, they're removed?

Maybe I am misunderstanding you then. Sure we wont go into extreme detail about some things if it would breach the NDA. But what has that got to do with expressing feelings/opinions? Or always feeling the need to agree with other staff members?

[Bеаn]

12 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

But what has that got to do with expressing feelings/opinions? Or always feeling the need to agree with other staff members?

You can't say everything you wish you could say; you're restricted. Therefore, you're unable to express your true feelings. El Reja said something along the lines of "I wish I could say such and such, so you could understand." If he could say, there would be far more transparency, and he'd be able to properly express his views without having to think NDA-first.
 

It's pretty common to see several staff members upvoting other staff members' posts, thus showing their support. You don't tend to see a staff member siding with someone who disagrees with a change. Maybe all staff members rarely disagree with management, or maybe they can't bring themselves to openly disagree — who knows. 

I'm yet to see an admin or staff member openly join this discussion and ask the questions we're asking, but I'm damn sure there are some thinking about the questions.

[Foobrother]

49 minutes ago, El Reja said:

I'm wasting my time with people who will argue everything we do and explain, and even if you get access to those rules and all u wanna know, i'm completely sure that you will still argue everything just cause u can and it's free lol. 

 

If u don't wanna understand what we try to explain, then feel free to keep complaining, nothing is gonna change and you will only lose your time.

Not gonna argue on this topic anymore, so, have fun!

Bro can't understand what we explain and i'm the one apparently suffering a "mental illness"

U too mate, have fun over here! 

Lots of palava. But I'm still waiting for the answer to my question: 

Quote

Regarding GM Leads you're still not answering my question: how can a couple of GM Leads review 100% of the reports processed by dozens of Moderators?

 

[StateCA [NL]]

30 minutes ago, Bеаn said:

You can't say everything you wish you could say; you're restricted. Therefore, you're unable to express your true feelings. El Reja said something along the lines of "I wish I could say such and such, so you could understand." If he could say, there would be far more transparency, and he'd be able to properly express his views without having to think NDA-first.
 

It's pretty common to see several staff members upvoting other staff members' posts, thus showing their support. You don't tend to see a staff member siding with someone who disagrees with a change. Maybe all staff members rarely disagree with management, or maybe they can't bring themselves to openly disagree — who knows. 

I'm yet to see an admin or staff member openly join this discussion and ask the questions we're asking, but I'm damn sure there are some thinking about the questions.

We don't talk with each other through forum posts, so that's why you don't see team members disagreeing. There are hundreds of staff members, and only a handful of 1 team has been commenting here. So not sure what kind of representation you were expecting.

 

Especially since this is a post about GM anonymity. You're not going to find moderators who would gladly go back to the old system and get a bunch of harassement.

[El Reja]

39 minutes ago, Bеаn said:

You can't say everything you wish you could say; you're restricted. Therefore, you're unable to express your true feelings. El Reja said something along the lines of "I wish I could say such and such, so you could understand." If he could say, there would be far more transparency, and he'd be able to properly express his views without having to think NDA-first.
 

It's pretty common to see several staff members upvoting other staff members' posts, thus showing their support. You don't tend to see a staff member siding with someone who disagrees with a change. Maybe all staff members rarely disagree with management, or maybe they can't bring themselves to openly disagree — who knows. 

I'm yet to see an admin or staff member openly join this discussion and ask the questions we're asking, but I'm damn sure there are some thinking about the questions.

We are restriced to talk about some specific things, of course. Isn't me being "afraid", i've disagreed many times with upper staff within the team, it's just that there's an NDA that doesn't let us talk about things you don't have access to, and therefore i can't tell you what the exact rules are the ones i'm talking about. It's common sense, why would i be scared to say something? I'd not comment here if that's the case. 

 

We try to explain things with the resources we have, and if u wanna know more about that then as i said two times, head over the feedback system, make a ticket and wait for an upper staff with permissions to talk about NDA stuff to solve your inquires.

[Bеаn]

1 minute ago, StateCA [NL] said:

We don't talk with each other through forum posts

That's lovely —  has nothing to do with what I've said, though. Just because you don't talk with each other here, doesn't stop them from talking to other members of the community. 
 

3 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

You're not going to find moderators who would gladly go back to the old system and get a bunch of harassement

I bet I could find some moderators who couldn't give a toss. For example, those who haven't changed their upload-site names to "TruckersMP Moderation," "User55," or any other ridiculous names. Those people who don't give a rat's arse about what people say about them or to them.

I bet I could also find numerous moderators that have never gotten "a bunch of harassment". It only seems to be a select few moaning about receiving a "bunch of harassment", I can guarantee you that its not team-wide.  

[[MCG] Qin Sir]

On 9/1/2023 at 11:00 PM, MrAndyTF said:

问候玩家们，

在过去的几年里，我们的核心游戏审核策略基本保持不变，游戏中的报告和我们专门的网站报告系统都被采用。这是与承诺，每一个网站的报告将得到处理，这样做，占用了大量的资源。

可以说，这导致了许多网络报告的产生-2023年Q2有53，934人-将时间集中在处理这些事件上，而不是花时间在游戏中，查看游戏报告系统和实时发生的违规事件。此外，这些网站报告带来了额外的复杂性，即证据并不总是质量最好的，或者不符合我们的报告规则，见第1.4节这里.

此外，每个网站报告都会在某个时候被审查的事实导致了一种有毒的“建议禁止文化”的形成，一些玩家将报告他们可能遇到的每一个违反规则的行为作为自己的使命，无论这些行为有多小或多微不足道，即使这对他们的体验没有重大影响。同样，我们的团队花了大量时间处理这些报告，其中一些涉及几周前发生的事件。这给我们的系统带来了不必要的压力，并导致真正的报告被延迟，犯罪者能够继续在游戏中-你可以看到一个循环是如何开始形成的，由于处理这些琐碎的报告，严重的事件堆积起来，时间从游戏中转移。

TruckersMP的目标是忠于我们的玩家，做出改变来增强游戏体验。归根结底，这是一场游戏，必须要理解，有些情况下可能会犯一个简单的错误，不需要采取进一步的行动。我们相信，允许我们的版主将更多的时间和资源集中在游戏中会带来许多好处，如增加社区互动、可见的存在以及利用现场工具的能力，如传送或踢球员，这可以防止或处理事件，而不必禁止球员。目前，我们的反应非常迅速，而不是积极主动。

为了实现这一转变，我们正在对通过网站系统处理报告的方式进行一些改变。首先，用户可以创建的网站报告的最大数量不得超过10个。这是因为我们发现，与滥用系统和报告大量琐碎的违规行为相比，这种做法在报告真正破坏性或不当行为的需求之间找到了平衡。报告将继续被评分，那些继续制作不符合报告规则的报告的人最终将被留在他们可能只能创建一个报告的情况下。此外，网站上的报告窗口已经从14天缩短到7天，再次确保报告是相关的，并且是通过该系统传递给我们的严重问题。

我们正在努力制止一些玩家的态度，他们互相攻击，报道一些无关紧要的事情。然而，同样的，我们仍然打算处理那些在游戏中引起严重问题，严重影响玩家的人，采取严格的控制措施。如前所述，我们希望能够更加积极主动，将我们的努力集中在此时此地，集中在游戏本身。

另外，我们还引入了一个系统来匿名化我们的节制。这意味着当你被禁止或有一个报告处理，你将看不到谁发出处罚主持人的名字。这是为了减少我们的一些队员在游戏中发布惩罚时不得不忍受的辱骂和骚扰。您仍可以在上诉中与该版主讨论，但他们将保持匿名。

我们希望您能在这里看到我们的愿景，并分享我们对改进报告处理方式的想法。如果你有任何反馈，你可以通过创建反馈单联系游戏审核管理这里.

注意安全，路上见！

 

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I think we should shorten the reporting video, upload useful direct accident video or main content, and adopt the simplest way to reduce the burden of the reporting system.

[StateCA [NL]]

2 minutes ago, Bеаn said:

That's lovely —  has nothing to do with what I've said, though. Just because you don't talk with each other here, doesn't stop them from talking to other members of the community. 
 

I bet I could find some moderators who couldn't give a toss. For example, those who haven't changed their upload-site names to "TruckersMP Moderation," "User55," or any other ridiculous names. Those people who don't give a rat's arse about what people say about them or to them.

I bet I could also find numerous moderators that have never gotten "a bunch of harassment". It only seems to be a select few moaning about receiving a "bunch of harassment", I can guarantee you that its not team-wide.  

You think we can only disagree with changes internally and not publicly? Bro that's some tinfoil stuff right there ngl.

 

Just because some moderators can't be bothered hiding their name, does not mean they disagree with the changes. It's not mutually exclusive.

[Bеаn]

3 minutes ago, El Reja said:

We are restriced to talk about some specific things, of course. Isn't me being "afraid", i've disagreed many times with upper staff within the team, it's just that there's an NDA that doesn't let us talk about things you don't have access to, and therefore i can't tell you what the exact rules are the ones i'm talking about. It's common sense, why would i be scared to say something? I'd not comment here if that's the case. 

I don't really see a need to restrict you, though. If you didn't want to break the NDA, you'd speak openly, correct? You'd tell us everything we want to know. You've already said you wish you were able to tell us more, so you clearly do want to be able to.

[Bеаn]

2 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

You think we can only disagree with changes internally and not publicly? Bro that's some tinfoil stuff right there ngl.

This "not reading what's been said" thing is spreading. I never said anything about discussing things internally. I'm saying you rarely see people disagreeing publicly. Disagree privately to your heart's content, but that doesn't allow us, the people who matter, to know your opinions. There must be a reason for people preferring to disagree privately and not openly. I know that if I were in your position, I'd have no problem expressing how I felt with the community — positive or negative. I most certainly wouldn't shield players from my honest thoughts and opinions by discussing them privately.

Obviously, there are times when you're required not to say anything, and that's fine. But, in my view, it would really improve relations if we saw more moderators and staff members voicing their opinions. I can guarantee you that there are numerous admins and staff members sitting at their PCs thinking, "Why have they changed that? I don't like that they've changed that."

 

11 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

Bro that's some tinfoil stuff right there ngl.

Could you please enlighten me? I am unable to see how what I've said is "some tinfoil stuff". What the hell has tinfoil got to do with anything? 

[Stan]

As the blog post that this topic pertains to was posted over a month ago and has now strayed off topic, into various heated discussions, this topic will now be closed.

 

If you have any questions or concerns relating to in-game moderation, then you can contact Game Moderation Management through the feedback system, by clicking here, where they can be properly addressed.