Change rule 1.4 screen shot requirements for chat reporting

[Mimmo]

yesterday I reported a player for typing the N word in the in game chat. The report was declined under rule 1.4 due to the screen shot being cropped down to show only the players name and comment. After it was declined I opened a feedback ticket to which there was no discretion used to deal with this player as the moderators stuck to the 1.4 rule quite literally saying the evidence was invalid. As a result at the end of the feedback I was blamed for letting this player get away with making a racist remark due to the way I presented the evidence which left me feeling quite sickened. The ticket was closed not allowing me to respond. Granted I was not aware of the 1.4 rule with the chat having to be fully opened however seen as it was a racist remark I thought discretion could have been used. never the less the out come it was it is.

My main point is I would like to make a suggestion and hope that the 1.4 rule where you must have a screen shot of the chat fully opened to be classed as valid evidence be changed to simply catching a screen shot of any sort when it comes to racist comments as you can only use F12 screen shot mode when the vehicle is stationary. This cannot always be the case, in highly populated areas such a Calais where these kind or remarks are made and where this happened the chat can move at speed ultimately disappearing the comment allowing player to get allow with it.

I hope the TMP team take this on bored as this is a form of loop whole for player to use to get out of a ban

[PennyFG]

2 hours ago, Mimmo said:

yesterday I reported a player for typing the N word in the in game chat. The report was declined under rule 1.4 due to the screen shot being cropped down to show only the players name and comment. After it was declined I opened a feedback ticket to which there was no discretion used to deal with this player as the moderators stuck to the 1.4 rule quite literally saying the evidence was invalid. As a result at the end of the feedback I was blamed for letting this player get away with making a racist remark due to the way I presented the evidence which left me feeling quite sickened. The ticket was closed not allowing me to respond. Granted I was not aware of the 1.4 rule with the chat having to be fully opened however seen as it was a racist remark I thought discretion could have been used. never the less the out come it was it is.

My main point is I would like to make a suggestion and hope that the 1.4 rule where you must have a screen shot of the chat fully opened to be classed as valid evidence be changed to simply catching a screen shot of any sort when it comes to racist comments as you can only use F12 screen shot mode when the vehicle is stationary. This cannot always be the case, in highly populated areas such a Calais where these kind or remarks are made and where this happened the chat can move at speed ultimately disappearing the comment allowing player to get allow with it.

I hope the TMP team take this on bored as this is a form of loop whole for player to use to get out of a ban

Hello @Mimmo!

First of all, I wish you a good day sir!

I don't agree with anything you say, first of all, when you want to report violations in the chat, you should get a screenshot of the full chat as evidence, if you can't do this while driving, I recommend medal.tv, there is a feature to save pictures while driving.

In any case, a screenshot of the full chat is requested by the 1.4, which must be analysed in detail, including but not limited to whether the violation in the chat was a provocation initiated by you.

Of course, there are stuffs too that we don't know internally, already these are just my thoughs.

[MartinV90]

44 minutes ago, Mimmo said:

yesterday I reported a player for typing the N word in the in game chat. The report was declined under rule 1.4 due to the screen shot being cropped down to show only the players name and comment. After it was declined I opened a feedback ticket to which there was no discretion used to deal with this player as the moderators stuck to the 1.4 rule quite literally saying the evidence was invalid. As a result at the end of the feedback I was blamed for letting this player get away with making a racist remark due to the way I presented the evidence which left me feeling quite sickened. The ticket was closed not allowing me to respond. Granted I was not aware of the 1.4 rule with the chat having to be fully opened however seen as it was a racist remark I thought discretion could have been used. never the less the out come it was it is.

My main point is I would like to make a suggestion and hope that the 1.4 rule where you must have a screen shot of the chat fully opened to be classed as valid evidence be changed to simply catching a screen shot of any sort when it comes to racist comments as you can only use F12 screen shot mode when the vehicle is stationary. This cannot always be the case, in highly populated areas such a Calais where these kind or remarks are made and where this happened the chat can move at speed ultimately disappearing the comment allowing player to get allow with it.

I hope the TMP team take this on bored as this is a form of loop whole for player to use to get out of a ban

I have never actually thought about that before (the Fact F12 screenshot doesn’t work however their are different ways to take screenshots in TMP. I use Geforce experiance, there is also trucky overlay, but also your computer will have a screenshot shortcut too. 
 

in regards to the offensive comments, disappearing, with the new chat updates, you can scroll up to always look back at an offensive comments. 
 

Also I am pretty certain all of the chat logs get saved in a file within TMP folder, you could filter these chats to fine the “N” world, surely they would accept a screenshot of the chat log as evidence to get that use a banned? 

[Al3ksik]

I think this would be a good idea to possibly consider,

 

As long as you can see the message the inside game ID of the player and the username I would consider this as a valid thing not everyone has powerfull computers to run Medal TV and Trucky and i used to be in the situation a couple of months ago I think this would make it more useful for players on Low End devices but that's my opnion

[djoh]

1 hour ago, Al3ksik said:

I think this would be a good idea to possibly consider,

 

As long as you can see the message the inside game ID of the player and the username I would consider this as a valid thing not everyone has powerfull computers to run Medal TV and Trucky and i used to be in the situation a couple of months ago I think this would make it more useful for players on Low End devices but that's my opnion

This is not a good idea at all.

The reason you need a screenshot of an entire chat is to know the context. Imagine someone saying something bad to a player and then that player replies with the same thing. That person can report that player and only provide a screenshot of the player saying bad things, not of themselves. Then only that player will be banned, even though the person also broke the rules.

[Donii.]

Hi there!

 

This is a definite -1 from me.

 

§1.4 - Reporting users

> Evidence of inappropriate use of language, impersonation of any kind and inappropriate content, in the text chat must show the full chat open and unedited.

 

The purpose of the above is to ensure that upon a RM / GM reviewing the evidence they can view the whole conversation, to gain a full understanding of the context.

In addition to this, it also allows us to possibly understand why the user may have said what they did as we can see messages before and after. If the full chat is not displayed, as others have stated above, then this can result in every user saying what they wish in chat, without receiving a punishment as a user may choose to only report 1 user vs 2+ users.

[[S.PLH]Warrior]

3 hours ago, MartinV90 said:

I have never actually thought about that before (the Fact F12 screenshot doesn’t work however their are different ways to take screenshots in TMP. I use Geforce experiance, there is also trucky overlay, but also your computer will have a screenshot shortcut too. 
 

in regards to the offensive comments, disappearing, with the new chat updates, you can scroll up to always look back at an offensive comments. 
 

Also I am pretty certain all of the chat logs get saved in a file within TMP folder, you could filter these chats to fine the “N” world, surely they would accept a screenshot of the chat log as evidence to get that use a banned? 

 

Chat logs you cannot use as evidence to report someone as chatlogs can easily be edited in a notepad. therefore it must be a picture.

[MartinV90]

34 minutes ago, [S.PLH]Warrior said:

 

Chat logs you cannot use as evidence to report someone as chatlogs can easily be edited in a notepad. therefore it must be a picture.

Ahh that makes sense. But still, what context is it okay to say the N word? Surely the evidence provided should still be accepted, that person said the N word, no matter what that person may have previously been called (that may have been cropped out) saying an insult like that is NEVER right. 

[Mimmo]

i fully understand rule rule 1.4 now don't get me wrong i just feel that when a racist remark or term is used in anyway in game. it shouldn't be confined to the 1.4 rule. its not a simple FU. yes their are many ways to capture the game but you need to think of people as whole not every can run separate capture footage and the game at the same time, not everyone can upload footage but everyone.

 

i understand seeing an entire chat may give context to what and why something has been said but a majority of the time comments in the chat are reaction comments due to another player. such as blocking ramming etc. so the context of the chat would never fully been seen in most cases. for example if some says the N word over the CB and then another responds in the chat writing "WTF N..... ?????"  it that expectable ?. maybe to some, but just because one person says it doesn't make it ok for another to repeat it.

 

from a personal experience I've had. I was live banned for saying FU in the chat by an admin and the image they used was cropped  only showing my comment and the ban length in blue text it showed no context of why i said it. 

 

[Mimmo]

just think about it like this i can and not that ever would but i could go on the game right now, write a racist remark or comment in chat and if someone wanted to report me and takes a screen shot without the chat being fully open, there nothing game moderators can do. because of rule 1.4. think about that and if you say well not that's not true, you can still get banned.  well according to what's been said here by staff and other members it really is true. the fact this person wrote the N word in full in game and nobody here will dare do the same. even though in some way he/she is being defend by those who disagree with suggestion says a lot. 

 

it doesn't matter if you pick and choose who to report or context of a chat that kind of thing happens all the time. if its racist you should be banned and then they can appeal it 

 

 

[Granite [SVK]]

3 hours ago, Donii. said:

The purpose of the above is to ensure that upon a RM / GM reviewing the evidence they can view the whole conversation, to gain a full understanding of the context.

I would say these two parts should be combined into one, becasue they are closely related and the second one is actually the reason why the requirement exist, and is the only context you are and should be looking for:

• Evidence of inappropriate use of language, impersonation of any kind and inappropriate content, in the text chat must show the full chat open and unedited.
• Evidence containing insults or otherwise offensive marks from the reporter won't be accepted and the reporter might be banned for inappropriate use of language, depending on the severity.

That would make the rule better in my opinion, both apply to any evidence, not just screenshot, so there shouldn't be an issue.

 

You can't exactly get full context from picture, you are even allowed to report insults not targeted at you, if you happen to drive by someone having an argument and you capture some of their conversation which you were not even part of, if you feel like doing so.  The full context is actually pretty much irrelevant.

[Interstate Nomad]

11 hours ago, Donii. said:

In addition to this, it also allows us to possibly understand why the user may have said what they did as we can see messages before and after.

 

Why do you need to understand the motive of an racism insult? Will it change the severity of the punishment?

[Donii.]

2 hours ago, blabberbeak said:

 

Why do you need to understand the motive of an racism insult? Will it change the severity of the punishment?

 

You picked out one comment of mine and applied it directly to racism despite me not mentioning racism or a specific category as it applies to all forms of inappropriate language. Context is crucial in all scenarios however, the more severe the language used is, the less context we would need.

 

It's important to understand that targeting can be a quite easy thing to do if we didn't require the full chat to be open as people could just screenshot certain messages but not all, thus resulting in the rule being unfair and not everyone being treated the same.

[Interstate Nomad]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:30 PM, Donii. said:

 

You picked out one comment of mine and applied it directly to racism despite me not mentioning racism or a specific category as it applies to all forms of inappropriate language. Context is crucial in all scenarios however, the more severe the language used is, the less context we would need.

 

It's important to understand that targeting can be a quite easy thing to do if we didn't require the full chat to be open as people could just screenshot certain messages but not all, thus resulting in the rule being unfair and not everyone being treated the same.

 

I applied it to racismto relate to the the content of the OP first post and to stay on-topic.

 

I don't know about you, but to my understanding, racism should always be harshly punished, independent of what lead to it and of what another party might have said before.

 

So again my question to you:
Why do you need to understand the motive of an racism insult? Will it change the severity of the punishment?