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Changes to the bans system


Computerpro

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Suggestion Name: Change the way longer bans are issued. (1 month, 3 month and permanent bans.)

Suggestion Description: I have recently discovered the way bans are issued can be unfair for certain players. If a user is reported for more than one offence in one report, this user will be issued with one longer ban. However, the reporter could quite easily file a first report, wait for this to be dealt with, and then go ahead and submit a second report. This would lead to the user being banned twice (Two shorter bans). The issue with this is that, this pushes the user closer to the 1 month, 3 month and permanent bans, which could be unfair, as I will explain in the scenario below. 

 

Scenario which would result in an unfair ban system: 

Say I'm reporting a particular player (let's say Player A) for both insulting and ramming me. I report these both in one report. One longer ban is applied
But, another player is reporting a different player (We'll call this Player B ) for the same offences, but creates 2 reports instead of the 1 report option. This player would receive 2 bans, right?

Both players broke two rules, but Player A seems to have a better punishment than Player B has, because Player B is being pushed closer to the 1 month, 3 month and permanent bans with the 2 bans he would be given. Player B clearly has it much more unfair than Player A does. 
Let's say the players both had a clean history before these bans were given. It would then only take 2 more bans for Player B to then be given his 1 month due to history ban. Whereas, Player A would need 3 bans instead. Clearly in this scenario, the ban system is making it much more unfair on Player B. They both broke the same, two rules. 

 

In that sense, I feel a change is needed to the bans system to make it fair all around. Possible solutions could include determining the longer bans based on the amount of days a user has been banned previously. Alternatively, a bans point system could be added. The more points, the longer ban you receive. 

Any example images: N/A. 

Why should it be added?: It should be changed because clearly the ban system can be unfair currently as I have explained above. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
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On 12/21/2018 at 11:55 PM, Computerpro said:

Say I'm reporting a particular player (let's say Player A) for both insulting and ramming me. I report these both in one report. One longer ban is applied
But, another player is reporting a different player (We'll call this Player B ) for the same offences, but creates 2 reports instead of the 1 report option. This player would receive 2 bans, right?

:unsure:

In my opinion NO (one situation one ban) . Look rules: §1.3 - Spamming or Abuse

"reporting users multiple times with the same evidence and misusing the system for its intended purposes"


If someone sends next report in the same situation, the player should not be punished. Game Moderator should perceive all crimes committed by the player at a given moment. The next report on the same situation should be rejected because of § 1.3.
The player has the right to appeal and the next ban for the same situation should be canceled.

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2 hours ago, MarkON said:

In my opinion NO (one situation one ban) . Look rules: §1.3 - Spamming or Abuse

"reporting users multiple times with the same evidence and misusing the system for its intended purposes"


If someone sends next report in the same situation, the player should not be punished. Game Moderator should perceive all crimes committed by the player at a given moment. The next report on the same situation should be rejected because of § 1.3.
The player has the right to appeal and the next ban for the same situation should be canceled

Thanks for your thoughts on this :) 

 

What you have said is different to what my suggestion is about. I refer to the fact that when the perpetrator commits two offences that are to be reported. 

In my example I explained that a user has committed both Insulting and Ramming, both of which are against the rules. 

 

The reporter/user who has witnessed and recorded the perpetrator in question committing the two offences as described above could go ahead and report those both in one report, as such would lead to the Game Moderator dealing with the report to apply a slightly longer ban to the perpetrator. 

Or,  the reporter could report the ramming the perpetrator committed in a first report, and a Game Moderator would apply a ban for that offence. The reporter can then wait for the perpetrators ban to expire, and then file a second report for the Insulting the perpetrator committed.  

 

The second route the reporter could take that I have explained above shows the perpetrator could possibly receive two bans, whereas the first route I explained they would only receive 1 slightly longer ban. Hence, how they would be pushed closer to the 1 month, 3 month and permanent bans. It is in no way "one situation one ban" since my suggestion explains when there are two "situations"

 

I hope you understand now :) 

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If you send the video evidence in a report to player as you said only for "Ramming" and not mention the "Chat Abuse" but leave it for next report,you don't get anything by doing that.
Let's say, he will got 3 days for ramming, and 3 days for Chat Abuse. So, if you make 2 reports against him, he will be banned twice ( 3 for ramming, 3 for chat abuse ) ( ONLY if those are separate situations, not the same )
If you make only one report where you mention both reasons, he will get 6 days. In the end,there is no difference at all.

But,you think player will receive 2 bans instead of 1 ? So, i dont think this would happen like you imagine. Game Moderators will review whole video evidence you provided in your report,and check it completely to see if player you reported broke any other rule beside those you mentioned. And of course,they will notice the "Chat Abuse" in there so his ban will be higher for every rule he broke.

If you try to make another report, like you said first one was "Ramming" and you try to make a second one for "Chat Abuse", but because that has been resolved already,game mod will probably notice the same evidence from last report,and your report will probably be rejected.

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  • 3 weeks later...

First of all, Thank you both very much for giving your thoughts.

 

On 1/17/2019 at 1:49 AM, Maze said:

I do understand your point of view. However, I do believe the user deserves to be punished twice. If the reporter decides to report two offenses separately or as one, it's up to him. I don't think it's unfair at all, after all the user did broke 2 rules. That's just me, but we shall see. :P 

It shouldn't be up to the reporter to decide whether the user gets a reasonable punishment or a more unfair one. It should be a fixed system so that the reporter cannot do this. That way, it makes it fair for everyone. Otherwise, some people will be treated more unfairly than others, and to me, that shouldn't happen. 

 

On 1/17/2019 at 1:37 PM, SalePro said:

If you send the video evidence in a report to player as you said only for "Ramming" and not mention the "Chat Abuse" but leave it for next report,you don't get anything by doing that.
Let's say, he will got 3 days for ramming, and 3 days for Chat Abuse. So, if you make 2 reports against him, he will be banned twice ( 3 for ramming, 3 for chat abuse ) ( ONLY if those are separate situations, not the same )
If you make only one report where you mention both reasons, he will get 6 days. In the end,there is no difference at all.

But,you think player will receive 2 bans instead of 1 ? So, i dont think this would happen like you imagine. Game Moderators will review whole video evidence you provided in your report,and check it completely to see if player you reported broke any other rule beside those you mentioned. And of course,they will notice the "Chat Abuse" in there so his ban will be higher for every rule he broke.

If you try to make another report, like you said first one was "Ramming" and you try to make a second one for "Chat Abuse", but because that has been resolved already,game mod will probably notice the same evidence from last report,and your report will probably be rejected.

 

Regarding your first paragraph, there is a difference. You are correct in saying the ban lengths would be the same (i.e. 2, 3 day bans or , 6 day ban), however this is not the point. If the user is given 2 bans, they are then closer to being given a 1 month due to history ban. There is quite clearly a difference, as I have explained in my overall original suggestion.

 

In regards to your second point, it doesn't always happen in that way. However, that is a little too complicated to explain. My overall suggestion explains how it can be unfair thoroughly enough. 

Finally, chances are they wont notice it. Again, it doesn't always occur in that way. Nevertheless, thank you for giving your opinion. It is appreciated :)

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Computerpro said:

First of all, Thank you both very much for giving your thoughts.

 

It shouldn't be up to the reporter to decide whether the user gets a reasonable punishment or a more unfair one. It should be a fixed system so that the reporter cannot do this. That way, it makes it fair for everyone. Otherwise, some people will be treated more unfairly than others, and to me, that shouldn't happen. 

 

 

Regarding your first paragraph, there is a difference. You are correct in saying the ban lengths would be the same (i.e. 2, 3 day bans or , 6 day ban), however this is not the point. If the user is given 2 bans, they are then closer to being given a 1 month due to history ban. There is quite clearly a difference, as I have explained in my overall original suggestion.

 

In regards to your second point, it doesn't always happen in that way. However, that is a little too complicated to explain. My overall suggestion explains how it can be unfair thoroughly enough. 

Finally, chances are they wont notice it. Again, it doesn't always occur in that way. Nevertheless, thank you for giving your opinion. It is appreciated :)

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's  unfair at all. Don't want to be punished, don't break the rules. If you get banned twice, you broke 2 rules. Seems very fair to me. 

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I agree with you that ban system should be  more fair also admins should be able clean history if they dont receive second  or third ban for lets say 3 years since this game is based  on realistic  punishment history should be  cleared if players dont get  punishment for 3 years and this will reduce ban evading with different account and it will look much better like getting your license history cleared and more realistic 

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the mods look at all the evidence. if they see more then what you are reporting they can at their own accord increase the ban length. here is my opinion on someone trying to report a person twice for the same incident that you are talking about. if the person sends in the same video/evidence that they posted with the previous report, they themselves should receive a ban for abusing the system.

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^^

The same evidence will not be accepted twice. 

However, evidence of 2 or more different incidents of the same day will likely result in an extension of the length of a initial punishment.

And I think that is fair, as the perpetrator violated the rules several times. 

If you think about it, it is in favour of the perpetrator to receive one longer punishment than 2 different ones, because the latter would bring him faster to a monthly or eventually permanent ban. 

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18 hours ago, Maze said:

I don't think it's  unfair at all. Don't want to be punished, don't break the rules. If you get banned twice, you broke 2 rules. Seems very fair to me. 

That's not the point at all. Some people can break two rules and be given 1 long ban, whereas some can break the exact same two rules and be given a longer ban. Hence some are pushed closer and sooner to the 1 month, 3 month and permanent bans. 

 

16 hours ago, ShadowWolf2k7 said:

the mods look at all the evidence. if they see more then what you are reporting they can at their own accord increase the ban length. here is my opinion on someone trying to report a person twice for the same incident that you are talking about. if the person sends in the same video/evidence that they posted with the previous report, they themselves should receive a ban for abusing the system.

Your first point is not always true and it can happen in different ways. However, as I explained in my previous reply, that is a little too complicated to explain, given than my suggestion explains thoroughly enough already how it can be unfair.  Second of all, I am not referring to when the same incident is being reported.

 

9 hours ago, Joao Rodrigues said:

The same evidence will not be accepted twice. 

However, evidence of 2 or more different incidents of the same day will likely result in an extension of the length of a initial punishment.

And I think that is fair, as the perpetrator violated the rules several times. 

If you think about it, it is in favour of the perpetrator to receive one longer punishment than 2 different ones, because the latter would bring him faster to a monthly or eventually permanent ban. 

Again, I am not talking about the same evidence being given. There are some scenarios where the two broken rules will not be in one evidence. It's quite possible that a user could ram a user, and then 20 minutes later insult them. Hence, this would not be in the same evidence. As for your other point, what if they're given a first ban, then ban expires and then the user in question goes ahead and reports the second incident. It's quite possible this could happen and hence, unfair. 

Last of all, yes it'd be in the perpetrators favour, however they can not determine this and some perpetrators will be given more unfair punishments to others. 

 

Once again, thanks for all your thoughts.

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16 minutes ago, Computerpro said:

That's not the point at all. Some people can break two rules and be given 1 long ban, whereas some can break the exact same two rules and be given a longer ban. Hence some are pushed closer and sooner to the 1 month, 3 month and permanent bans. 

 

Your first point is not always true and it can happen in different ways. However, as I explained in my previous reply, that is a little too complicated to explain, given than my suggestion explains thoroughly enough already how it can be unfair.  Second of all, I am not referring to when the same incident is being reported.

 

Again, I am not talking about the same evidence being given. There are some scenarios where the two broken rules will not be in one evidence. It's quite possible that a user could ram a user, and then 20 minutes later insult them. Hence, this would not be in the same evidence. As for your other point, what if they're given a first ban, then ban expires and then the user in question goes ahead and reports the second incident. It's quite possible this could happen and hence, unfair. 

Last of all, yes it'd be in the perpetrators favour, however they can not determine this and some perpetrators will be given more unfair punishments to others. 

 

Once again, thanks for all your thoughts.

 

Goat, if the person is worried about the number of bans he/she will get, don't break the rules in the first place. Not unfair. 

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1 hour ago, Computerpro said:

Again, I am not talking about the same evidence being given.

I was referring to @ShadowWolf2k7.

 

 

1 hour ago, Computerpro said:

It's quite possible that a user could ram a user, and then 20 minutes later insult them. Hence, this would not be in the same evidence.

If both incidents are reported by the same user at the same day they will likely be put together in one report by a game moderator with a possible extended ban length. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Computerpro said:

As for your other point, what if they're given a first ban, then ban expires and then the user in question goes ahead and reports the second incident. It's quite possible this could happen and hence, unfair.

The minimum ban length is likely not below 24 hours, I have seen no ban duration below 3 days.

One therefore is totally entitled to report a second incident after the first ban has expired. IIRC, one can not even report a player with an active ban.

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3 hours ago, Computerpro said:

There are some scenarios where the two broken rules will not be in one evidence. It's quite possible that a user could ram a user, and then 20 minutes later insult them. Hence, this would not be in the same evidence.

with what I just quoted from you. would result in 2 separate bans. you may not think it is fair, the person who broke the rules may think its not fair but at the end of the day, the person broke 2 rules in separate incidents. if the moderator wants to, they can give them 1 long ban combining both incidents or he can issue 2 separate bans, treating them as separate incidents. as for your suggestion I will have to give it a -1. IMO there is no reason to change the ban system itself. as for changing the way it works on a per report day, that might be a different story, and would suit your suggestion better.

 

@Joao Rodrigues

 

the only reports I have done in the whole time I have been here have been done in game. so as for what would and wouldn't be accepted, I wouldn't know. thank you for letting me know though about that :D

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From when I was GMTL if there were two separate reports instead of one with multiple offences the report gets forwarded to the GM that banned on the first report and they add the evidence to that ban and extend it or whatever, not 2 separate bans. Ultimately they should still equal the same / similar amount of time banned whether it's two bans or one.

 

@Joao Rodrigues the ban lengths can be 2 hours for some small offences like horn spamming.

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Regards,

Nameless Ghoul.

 

Current Advisor of

TruckersMP.com

 

Player Reports: https://truckersmp.com/reports

Ban Appeal: https://truckersmp.com/appeals

Game Rules: https://truckersmp.com/rules

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  • 4 months later...
  • Project Manager

Hello there,

 

I am sorry for the delay!

Unfortunately, I will reject this suggestion as your special case has been discussed already in your feedback ticket and the way of dealing with bans has been changed / is currently changing.

 

Kind Regards and Happy Trucking,

Lasse

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Appeal your banSubmit feedback | Have a nice day 🧡

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