Improved Save Editing Rules

RapidFellow · March 27, 2018

Suggestion Name:

Improvement / Rewriting of the TMP rules regarding save editing

Suggestion Description:

Most of the save editing rules are not clear and need a revision or at least a differentiation. I would like to point out those parts of the rules and explain why they are just vague and in which point they can (rather need) to be improved.

I'm gonna handle each part of the rules in particulary to make it easier to understand. Let's start...

Only mods that edit your save game will work in multiplayer, all other mods will be disabled.

Spoiler

Ok, that's a bad example to start for my suggestion xD This part of the rules doesn't require an improvement since it is already enforced by disabling of 3rd party mods. Even though there are some harmless plug-ins that also work in MP.

Beacons on the bull bar or otherwise on the front of the truck is not allowed.

Spoiler

That rule is not necessary because it makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE whether you have two beacons on your roof bar or two beacons on your bullbar.

It should be omitted since banning people for violating that rule is just a trigger-happy ban (means it‘s a ban that is issued beacuse a rule is broken even though no one gets hurt by a deeper positioned beacon).

And I almost forgot: Who causes more lags? A player having two beacons on his bullbar or a player having 10 beacons on his roof bar? The only thing that matters is the amount and not the position. And the amount is already regulated in the next point.

An excessive amount of beacons (more than the game allows without save editing) is not allowed.

Spoiler

That rule is understandable. I even suggest to set a fixed max amount that does not depend on the set up of the truck in order to make it as clear as possible.

BTW I don't know if that's intended, but at the moment the modding guidelines only covers beacons and no excessive amounts of lights, accessories etc. Instead it's part of the official rules:

Adding an excessive amount of beacons, lights, bullbars, horns, or similar to your truck and also includes any large horns or beacons on your bullbar or front bar.

What does excessive mean? More than possbile by default? And once again: large horns on the front bar are not different from large horns on the roof. Just like the beacons.

Any mods changing or expanding the truck, car or trailers hitbox is not allowed.

Spoiler

First of all there should be a definition of what the hitbox is and why it is dangerous to extend it. You might say it is clear? I have seen how even game moderators who issue the bans were not able to explain it properly. Here you can see a mixture of a Scania chassis and a DAF cabin. Is that an extended hitbox or a shrinked one? And is it even dangerous?

The answer is no. An extended hitbox is only dangerous if other players cannot see the extended hitbox. Huh? This is caused by ansync trailers that are replaced by a placeholder. One example: if I try to assign a trailer to my truck that does normally belong to an ai vehicle, it‘ll get replaced by a placeholder. And if this placeholder has a different hitbox than the actual trailer, it can be really harmful especially in populated areas. The mobile barrier of ATS is one of those async trailers (even it‘s not an ai trailer). And look what this can cause… Imagine someone would have driven behind me...

So that rule is definitely needed, but needs to be explained better. Most of the people struggle with that rule and don‘t know what it actually means. A better explaination is needed. Technically I also change my hitbox when I just change my truck brand. But it doesn‘t have any impact on other players. So a better differentiation is needed as well. Not every change of the hitbox is dangerous. Make sure to prohibit not any change.

You can only use car parts on cars, truck parts on trucks, and trailer parts on trailers. No exceptions.

Spoiler

Understandable since a scout engine in a truck is overkill. Even sometimes I wish I could use truck wheels on my trailer but ok…

The police accessories for the car is restricted to admins only.

Spoiler

Makes sense and is clear. Maybe you should mention that blue LEDs are also police accessories since many players aren't aware of this fact and are surprised when they get kicked.

Your vehicle must be a functional vehicle (i.e. don't remove everything but the chassis and tires).

Spoiler

Even though it contains an example it is completely vague. So let me explain you the 101 of truck accessories.

There are some required accessories (like engine, chassis, cabin, wheels,…) and also some optional accessories (like sunshields, mirrors, beacons, doorhandles,…). The required accessories are required to make your truck functional. If you remove one of those accessories, your game will crash. So it‘s impossible to drive around without having these accessories who give the truck its needed functionality.

The optional accessories can be removed, mostly whithout having any impact on the functionality of your truck. So what do you consider a ‚functional vehicle‘? Does it mean it‘s not allowed to remove all optional accessories? Does it mean it‘s not allowed to remove any optional accessories? The example you provided (removing everything apart from tires and chassis) is not even possible.

I asked some team members in which case that rule is violated. Synopsis: If your truck is weird ("not normal") looking, it‘s not allowed. But who judges what ‚weird looking‘ means?

Here is one example. Yes, it looks ugly. No, it doesn‘t extend the hitbox (interiors have no collision). Also no accessory was removed (only exchanged). And the truck was also functional. Even though that player got banned. Justification? „It's obvious that it's considered as excessive save editing as it doesn't look normal at all. [...] The rules list some examples of what is against the rules, while we let some situations go with 'common sense'.“

I'm not quite sure if I got this right, but getting banned due to lack of common sense seems quite unfair as the rules are not clear and it's mentioned nowhere. The rule refers to missing functionality and removing of accessories. None of both was violated.

Note: I don't want to argue about any ban in the past. I just use it as an example of what might happen again in the future.

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. And as long as a weird looking truck is not dangerous for other players (apart from getting eye cancer due to its appearance) I see no point of prohibiting it. And please don‘t tell me you want to keep it realistic. Since the existance of the europoort/cd road, this mod lost its last relationship to reality. So I think this rule should be also omitted.

Only one full-length trailer is allowed.

Spoiler

You may wonder why this rule is not clear? Just read the discussion below this status update.

https://forum.truckersmp.com/index.php?/profile/43359-chipmunk197/&status=55419&type=status

Once again, a better differentiation is necessary. Also why is it not allowed to create a heavy cargo trailer (ATS) just as it appears in the game? Or a double/triple trailer? Why are things prohibited that can be actually done without any save editing?

I understand that you don‘t want so see a 10 trailer road train on the roads. But creating a trailer that does already exist or is even shorter than an existing trailer? What about that?

You are not allowed to edit the double or triple trailers, with the only exception for changing the paint on them.

Spoiler

Well… I understand why you don‘t want doubles/triples to be edited. Nethertheless this rule needs improvement. Some parts of the upper staff told me that the exception of this rule does only refer to the paint and not to paintjobs as these are ‚skins‘ and no paint. Other parts of the upper staff were stating that both is allowed. Who to believe now?

Second thing: Many players are not aware that heavy cargo trailers in ATS are considered doubles and triples, because it isn‘t mentioned anywhere. I also would not know it if I hadn't been told in one of my feedback tickets.

In fact these trailers shouldn‘t be part of that rule anyway, their use should be clarifyed in the ‚one full-length trailer‘ rule – just as it used to be before doubles were added. That's important! Before double trailers were added, this rule did not exist, even Heavy Cargo trailers did. Were the trailers abused? No.

Having weight of 0 ton is not allowed!

Spoiler

Seems actually pretty clear, doesn‘t it? From my point of view – no.

It‘s impossible to understand how the weight of a trailer is calculated. The total weight is basically the sum of the trailer weight plus the cargo weight. The trailer weight is fixed and cannot be changed by save editing, so I guess the rule doesn‘t refer to that value. The cargo weight can be changed and set to any integer. Therefore it also affects the total weight.

Now the question is: Which weight does the rule refer to? Total weight or cargo weight?

Since the cargo weight can be set to a negative value, it is possible to reach a total weight of 0 kg. Such a kind of trailer is usually starting to fly and it pulls your truck up. Definetly not recommended, and I would totally understand if the rule would refer to the total mass for this particular reason.

Second possibility would be that the rule refers to the cargo weight. That would be non-sense since actually there are trailers having a cargo mass of 0t (#mobileBarrier). Additionally the total mass of the trailer would be still above 0t and you‘d be still slowlier than without a trailer, so the ‚speedhack‘ argument isn‘t valid either.

Another thing: you are talking about 0t trailers. What about -1t trailers? What about 50kg trailers? Those are possible even though they are not covered by your rule. Was that your intention?

And one last thing: There is NO WAY to prove that someone is using a 0t trailer. No way. Believe me. That player had to sign a I-admit-having-used-a-0t-trailer contract in order to be banned for it. So I don‘t see the point of it…

Any example images:

I included some pictures / examples in the suggestion description so they don't lose their reference.

Why should it be added?:

Of course I could just copy and paste all my doubts into a feedback ticket and get an answer to anything I need to know. Then I would be safe. But what about all the other players? They cannot read my feedback ticket. Should they all submit their own ticket? Ooof. The answers to those unanswered question and vague rules need to be available public. That's why I decided to write a suggestion instead of opening a feedback ticket.

TruckersMP does not allow 3rd party mods, so the players who like having a varied game experience are forced to use save editing. With my suggestion I would like to make sure that dangerous ways of save editing stay prohibited and harmless things become allowed. Also it should prevent people from getting banned for excessive save editing. Everyone should be able to understand the rules. If someone breaks a clear rule, you can argue 'That is the rule you broke and thus you got banned'. If someone is breaking an unclear rule your can only argue 'It's common sense that this is not allowed'.

So I hope that you recognize the need of an improvement. And please - don't post answers to the questions I asked below. Just rewrite the rules and make them clearer.

Thank you.