Why are German autobahn so unrealistically curvy?

[Lentii23]

I have for a long time been pissed of on the German autobahns in ETS2 and felt that they are to curvy, which should not be normal for a motorway. 

 

I always lose controle of the positioning in the lane and fall over to the next lane or hitting the side of the road.

I thought fair enough, I tend to drive between 110-120 km/h with a truck, which should usually be 90. 

 

But in multiplayer, I did buy a car and tried a speed on 120-130 km/h, and didnt make any difference.

There is an exaggeration of the German motorways in ETS2, they are unrealisticly to curvy. 

 

A motorway have a certain limit of how curvy it can be, since its supposed to be serve for high speed vehicles . In real life, I have yet not witnessed any autobahn to be that curvy everytime, even though I have travelled around 5000 KM on different autobahns in Germany.

 

What do you guys think? 

[MushroomLTU]

ETS2 map isn't like in real life, and distances are way shorter than in real life, that's why there many curves.

[Martin.]

Personally I haven't had such an issue and I haven't been bothered by it either. When you tend to drive between 110-120, wether with a car or truck, you should use your common sense on first place. When the limit is set to 130 for cars, that does NOT mean you should drive with that speed. If you'd want to play it a bit more realistic, try using the brake, slow down, then accelerated to the desired speed.

[RapidFellow]

The German Autobahn is actually pretty old, it even existed in GTS (and also ETS iirc...?)

 

The whole map of Germany needs a refresh. But nobody knows when this will happen

[David E.]

I think it would be a really cool update, even if it was done one part at a time, given that it is a large area.

[TheMrPatrick]

ETS2 autobahn is just awful by todays standards. Playing with Promods I truly get a feeling of driving on the Autobahn, all the details like digital overhead speed signs, the road textures and whatnot, ETS2 not so much.

 

And yes the curves. In real life you have slow bending curves, long straight roads, but in ETS2 it is all condensed terribly much. Shouldn't have to be a problem, but the developers thought that an exact copy of the road network was the best way to go, so map each and every curve straight from the real life map into this condensed gameworld. I don't expect a solution.

 

 

[Lentii23]

4 hours ago, [LKW Tr.] Martin [LET] said:

Personally I haven't had such an issue and I haven't been bothered by it either. When you tend to drive between 110-120, wether with a car or truck, you should use your common sense on first place. When the limit is set to 130 for cars, that does NOT mean you should drive with that speed. If you'd want to play it a bit more realistic, try using the brake, slow down, then accelerated to the desired speed.

 

 

4 hours ago, MushroomLTU said:

ETS2 map isn't like in real life, and distances are way shorter than in real life, that's why there many curves.

 

I know that, but still it should be possible to drive faster than recommended speed and not fly out of your lane. I could drive 190-200 in real life on autobahn, and yes I know this is a game, but they try to follow everything from real life and make even the scenery of the road original looking, so I dont think thats a good reason enough..

[Dubbeledraaideur [NL]]

Ow well it makes things a bit interesting, if you got roads like in ATS, long and straight. It gets a bit boring to drive it.
Especially if you need to haul a World of Truck load (like the christmas trailer).

When I am going to Denmark from Germany, I tend to speed at 150km/h just to get that bit over.

Yes it is a bit annoying that sometimes you need to slow down to 80km/h on the autobahn, but it is a hell lot better than the French/Italian tollbooths

[Lentii23]

I understand you guys I'm not a high speed maniac even though I enjoy adrenaline in high speed but only at occasions when I don't put anyone else in danger (i.e empty roads).

 

But slowing down to 50-60 kmh on motorway/autobahn is not so realistic and in real life would be a huge danger .

 

Well well I keep to French and Italian roads

[ShadowWolf2k7]

@Lentii23

the roads are not exactly the same as they are in Germany, if they were the map scale would be 1:1, however the map scale is 1:20, so those curves are going to be a lot more frequent and a lot tighter then they are in the real counterpart.

[Lentii23]

11 hours ago, ShadowWolf2k7 said:

@Lentii23

the roads are not exactly the same as they are in Germany, if they were the map scale would be 1:1, however the map scale is 1:20, so those curves are going to be a lot more frequent and a lot tighter then they are in the real counterpart.

 

I see your point but how come Sweden, Poland, France for eg have almost straight roads? Their area is also big? 

 

 

[sgpch1983]

the germany map needs updating.. but scs doesnt react if one asks.. promods is the singleplayer solution for the problem at the moment.

i told scs i would pay for germany rework.. i dont think they will do it for free.

[AnarşistGenç]

Germany dont want update ETS just want new countrys ETS have to make a lot of countrys.

[JeffSFC]

I think the reason they are so unrealistically curvy is because that was SCS's idea of giving the player a "challenge" when driving on the motorway to not make it so boring. It's the same with the sudden lanes ending where the traffic piles up while trying to merge and the motorway bridges that go down to one lane for no apparent reason. It's very poor design however I think it was intentional.

 

I drive 80km/h with trailer stability on low and I still have to slow down in order to manage them and not understeer or run the risk of rolling my lorry.

[Guest]

On 24/12/2017 at 2:59 PM, Lentii23 said:

A motorway have a certain limit of how curvy it can be, since its supposed to be serve for high speed vehicles .

There is no such thing. A motorway is not for high speed  vehicles. Its just a main road, like a direct road to different cities, no traffic light, stop signs, etc...

[Caricature]

May be unrealistic to you, but may not be to Germans or others around the world and even myself.

Which is also why there are many similar terms used to mean the same type of road; Motorway / Highway / Expressway and more.. etc.. etc..

 

Likewise, why are there multiple toll booths along the same said road in other countries.. while there isn't any / lesser in another.

What is sad and pathetic is that there are people out there in the world who don't want to acknowledge the fact that people / countries / terms are different,

especially when their ego / pride for their country's own terms and definitions kick in. 

 

Like what chevytime has mentioned, that's the definition I go by too. It's basically more of a direct / fast-er access (without traffic lights) to another city / place / destination.

It's building intention isn't high speeds.

 

So in that sense, to each his own. You may dislike it, so be it. Others like it... so be it.

Just a road, just yet another term.. etc etc etc.. no big deal; no need to whine about it.

Having trouble with it? Slow down and take precaution. You wanna risk it, you deal with the consequences later.. whatever they might be.

[ян Powerful]

ETS2 map isn't like in real life, 

Can not quite understand why there did not make the map a bit realistic? 

 

Maybe the developer likes to ride a roller coaster. That's why the map is so curvy 

[Lentii23]

23 hours ago, MettleMeat said:

May be unrealistic to you, but may not be to Germans or others around the world and even myself.

Which is also why there are many similar terms used to mean the same type of road; Motorway / Highway / Expressway and more.. etc.. etc..

 

Likewise, why are there multiple toll booths along the same said road in other countries.. while there isn't any / lesser in another.

What is sad and pathetic is that there are people out there in the world who don't want to acknowledge the fact that people / countries / terms are different,

especially when their ego / pride for their country's own terms and definitions kick in. 

 

Like what chevytime has mentioned, that's the definition I go by too. It's basically more of a direct / fast-er access (without traffic lights) to another city / place / destination.

It's building intention isn't high speeds.

 

So in that sense, to each his own. You may dislike it, so be it. Others like it... so be it.

Just a road, just yet another term.. etc etc etc.. no big deal; no need to whine about it.

Having trouble with it? Slow down and take precaution. You wanna risk it, you deal with the consequences later.. whatever they might be.

 

 

 

Alright, but 99% of the text doesnt have to do with what I was asking.

Yes you were talking about idiots in the traffic, but that was not my point. 

Even though Germany is famous for the most crazy driving in western Europe, if we define crazy by high speed. 

My point was that I do not find it realistic about German motorways because they are to curvy in the game which is not in reality. 

There are some definitions of what is a motorway and not a motorway. For something to be considered as motorway it has to have some certain kind of layers, be divided with some certain verge on the sides, lean a certain % (I think its 2% according to EU criteria) so the water of the rain falls out of the road etc etc.

And one of the criteria’s are that the curve cannot be bigger than some X degrees otherwise it needs signs at least X hundred meters before and signs where you should drop your speed, but still the curve cannot be too much.

 

The reason why many motorways have cant on the curve to compensate the power of vehicles turning.

 

 

 

On 2017-12-26 at 4:37 AM, chevytime said:

There is no such thing. A motorway is not for high speed  vehicles. Its just a main road, like a direct road to different cities, no traffic light, stop signs, etc...

It's not just a road.there are criteria's check my post above

 

[Dubbeledraaideur [NL]]

If we are going on about what defines a motorway:

Source

In countries following the Vienna convention, the motorway qualification implies they are forbidden for walking or parking, and reserved for the use of motorised vehicles only.

A controlled-access highway provides an unhindered flow of traffic, with no traffic signals, intersections or property access. They are free of any at-grade crossings with other roads, railways, or pedestrian paths, which are instead carried by overpasses and underpasses. Entrances and exits to the highway are provided at interchanges by slip roads (ramps), which allow for speed changes between the highway and arterials and collector roads. On the controlled-access highway, opposing directions of travel are generally separated by a median strip or central reservation containing a traffic barrier or grass. Elimination of conflicts with other directions of traffic dramatically improves safety^[1] and capacity.

But there is nothing about curves in the motorway.


In Belgium there is a Motorway/highway that goes by a 8% slope and then into a sharp corner. Speedlimit is 120KM/H there, but that is right on the mark with a normal car. Trucks above 8T are not allowed to go above 60KM/H downhill.
I cannot find the road on google maps, as example.

[Caricature]

4 hours ago, Lentii23 said:

Yes you were talking about idiots in the traffic, but that was not my point.

 

Not really I wasn't. I was giving you my opinion regarding the said road, in this case; the German autobahn.

And also my opinion regarding real people in the real world with egos and pride who fail enough at being mature at such simple scenarios.

I didn't relate my opinion towards reckless drivers in-game so you might have misunderstood me there.

You don't even need wiki to know what an autobahn is tbh. The definition of the said road (so yes, it IS a road) usually comes hand-in-hand with your theory test before taking your practical driving lessons. Obviously, the definitions will vary slightly from country to country including the names of the said road and etc etc..

 

After all, it's just a game scaled to simulate such a road. Do you mean SCS should use real life criterias that govern such a road to implement it on their creation of the simulation?

Either way, the wiki explanation given by Dubbeledraaideur [NL] above should clear your doubts regarding what a motorway is.

Note that there is a huge difference between the definition of what a motorway is, and what governs it to exist.

 

Plus, if you want to push the limits and begin speaking of criterias, why aren't you pushing SCS's limit by posting such a topic in their forums to provide them with a suggestion towards the base game? Just saying, but such a topic there would be more effective if everyone was so particular about criterias regarding the simulated roads created in-game. That way, at least you can get an idea of how many people are actually really affected by the same opinion you have regarding the "unrealistic" autobahn.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Lentii23 said:

^

Do you have any laws to backup what you are saying? You cannot say that unless you can backup your claims.

 

Have you not understood and noticed that ETS2 base map is basically copy paste all over? There is no realism, other than traffic laws and some speed limits. You cannot notice you are in Germany in ETS2 since German roads are just like Austrian roads, etc etc. 

 

This game is not designed to be realistic when it comes to map, at least it was not in the past. Forexample. Autobahn has no speed limit, its known to be the road to drive as past as you can and there will be no penalty for you unless you crash. But in ETS2, there is a limit for trucks to 90km/h and cars 120km/h.

 

And one more thing. I see this whole post as useless, since whatever you are saying here, won't change the base game. You have to take your claims to SCS blogs.

[Lentii23]

21 hours ago, Dubbeledraaideur [NL] said:

If we are going on about what defines a motorway:

^

 

19 hours ago, MettleMeat said:

^

 

17 hours ago, chevytime said:

^

 

I might have misunderstood that it is a EU level, it could be local level here in Sweden.

These facts Im mentioning are comin from an engineering level , about the curves, the lean the formation of the road, making a curve to engage the driver and keep him concentrated, but not a big curve to slow down the flow of the traffic which leads to high difference in the speed on same road which is the primary reason accident happens (if we exclude idiots driving reckless and alcohol.) . Perhaps you guys should pay attention to these details and I promise you that you will see the difference;

 

For example on the ring roads in the city, they always tend to make the curves extra curvy due to the reason to decrease noise of high speed cars.

In Sweden we call that term for Horisontalkurvatur (which litterly means horisontal curve trip) 

This concept is explained: The bigger the curve is the bigger is the risk for side friction and higher risk for accident.

 

In practice of planning motorways and urban planning in general we use this like: In a road where traffic goes slow we can plan more degress in the curve of the road than on roads where the speed is higher. Depending on the weight of the car/truck in X km/h (we often calculate the recommended speed 110 on motorway) and form the curve as maximum on how much the side friction of the vehicles can make.

 

Sometimes when we need the curve to be more curvy we also make the road more cant so it can help the vehicle to make the curve. 
So instead of having a stabilized flat road we make it more cant, before and during the curve. 

 

@chevytime Honestly no I have not realized that its a copy paste, but now when you mention it, I see that Austria and Germany have the same road styles. To say autobahn does not have limits is wrong, not all autobahns are limitfree, just a few of them that can guarantee to handle the high speed, have side protection and not big curves.

 

@MettleMeat and @Dubbeledraaideur [NL] : The Vienna convention was a convention on warning signs and general signals, to have a common system, that doesnt break it to the defenition of urban planning and engineering of the roads. 

 

Wish you guys a nice evening! 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Lentii23 said:

These facts Im mentioning are comin from an engineering level , about the curves, the lean the formation of the road, making a curve to engage the driver and keep him concentrated, but not a big curve to slow down the flow of the traffic which leads to high difference in the speed on same road which is the primary reason accident happens (if we exclude idiots driving reckless and alcohol.) . Perhaps you guys should pay attention to these details and I promise you that you will see the difference; 

This concept is explained: The bigger the curve is the bigger is the risk for side friction and higher risk for accident. 

 

In practice of planning motorways and urban planning in general we use this like: In a road where traffic goes slow we can plan more degress in the curve of the road than on roads where the speed is higher. Depending on the weight of the car/truck in X km/h (we often calculate the recommended speed 110 on motorway) and form the curve as maximum on how much the side friction of the vehicles can make. 

 

@chevytime Honestly no I have not realized that its a copy paste, but now when you mention it, I see that Austria and Germany have the same road styles. To say autobahn does not have limits is wrong, not all autobahns are limitfree, just a few of them that can guarantee to handle the high speed, have side protection and not big curves.

 

The roads are not designed to "engage" the driver. If you notice, the roads have turns due to geographical factors, cities, etc. If a highway could be straight it would, and if it suddently has a corner, well, its there for a reason. There is nothing that restric a corner of being 90 degrees turn.

 

 The risk of accidents will inscrease or decrease depending on your speed. There is NO law, nothing in the insternet approved in laws that say that. Please stop making things up.

 

And again you keep on tripping on whatever you are saying and still NO proof to back you up. Start presenting evidence, websites, laws, and then this discussion about curves can keep on going.

 

Quote

To sau autobahn does not have speed limits is wrong

 

Here you go, about German Autobahn's: More than half of the total length of the German autobahn network has no speed limit, about one third has a permanent limit, and the remaining parts have a temporary or conditional limit. Some cars with very powerful engines can reachspeeds of well over 300 km/h (190 mph).

 

And again ill repeat myself. You are wasting your time and peoples time by posting a discussion that no-one here has the power or influence to make a change. Instead of blabbing here, try using scs forums... Ill link you the forums so you can basically copy paste whatever is here. https://forum.scssoft.com/

 

 

[TheCreepyTruckr]

First, the map is "unrealistically curvy" because that is how SCS decided to make it.  The game doesn't advertise itself as having 100% accurate terrain, or Google Maps styled roads. 

 

Secondly,

On 12/25/2017 at 12:59 AM, Lentii23 said:

I have for a long time been pissed of on the German autobahns in ETS2 and felt that they are to curvy, which should not be normal for a motorway. 

 

I always lose controle of the positioning in the lane and fall over to the next lane or hitting the side of the road.

I thought fair enough, I tend to drive between 110-120 km/h with a truck, which should usually be 90. 

If you are having difficulty holding your lane, perhaps it's you.  I've never had an issue with holding my lane when driving at 100+ on the autobahn.  Sure it's not as easy as some of the other roads in the game but it's still possible.  Honestly in my opinion it sounds like you need to just go tweak your controls. (I had issues when I started playing until I got the autocenter, sensitivity, and steering linearity where I wanted it.)

[ShadowWolf2k7]

On 12/25/2017 at 12:59 AM, Lentii23 said:

But in multiplayer, I did buy a car and tried a speed on 120-130 km/h, and didnt make any difference.

 

here is another thing to remember, even though it is a "car" it still has the physics of a "truck", since the game treats it like a truck.

also there is a set speed limit for vehicles over a set weight amount even on the autobahn.

 

There is a general speed limit of 80 km/h (50 mph) for trucks with a GVWR over 3,500 kg (7,716 lbs) and for vehicles with trailers. For vehicles with a GVWR of over 7,500 kg (16,534 lbs) the limit is set to 60 km/h (37 mph) except on autobahns (also 80 km/h)