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Suggestion (Undercover admins)


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Maybe its funny but undercover admins will most likely do better then now. When people see admin starts to kick players everybody becomes serious. But if you put undercover admin everybody all the time will be good players and less crashes. 

A reason why it should be added/removed/changed: I think this suggestion should be accepted because it will help many other players

A description of what the suggestion is about: Example: when undercover admin is here. When he/she kicks or ban player. Just that player can see the massage that he is banned or kicked nobody else.

 

Edited by FirestarteR93
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This has been suggested before and rejected. 

 

Firstly please use the suggestion format or your suggestion can be automatically rejected.  and please use the search function.

Quote

A fitting title.

A description of what the suggestion is about.

A reason why it should be added/removed/changed.

Any eventual example images or similar.

 

Most admins are "undercover" as you don't see them as they use freecam.

 

Also when you report someone the admins watch a demo of the incident which means you won't see them if they're going through the demos. 

 

People break rules regardless even though they know an admin is online. 

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As the above post you need to use the format provided or else you risk your application being denied almost all the time. 

Suggestion Name: 

Suggestion Description:

Any example images: 

Why should it be added?:

 

I can see your point here, make admin actions completely invisible including chat ban notifications. This would help players not know an admin is around because when a player gets kicked / banned it displays in the chat. Although even when players know an admin as around they still break the rules. Take the C-D road for example, chances are there is always an admin there when it's busy yet you still have players trying to skip the line. 

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Just to make you aware, admins do sit logged out of admin 'mode' watching, you just don't know they're admins. This sadly doesn't work anymore as people like to ram now no matter what. Whether there is an admin there or not.

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Regards,

Nameless Ghoul.

 

Current Advisor of

TruckersMP.com

 

Player Reports: https://truckersmp.com/reports

Ban Appeal: https://truckersmp.com/appeals

Game Rules: https://truckersmp.com/rules

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-1 it's bad enough with some admins abusing their powers at times and being out of admin mode yet able to ban people for the smallest thing, that's like the police following you and pulling you over for doing 1 mph over the speed limit.

 

Not to mention the fact that chances are innocent people who aren't technically breaking the rules, will get screwed while trolls etc will know know a way around it.

 

A better way would be to have it so "marked" admins are the ones that make the call on punishments or talk to people, but unmarked admins can still report in things that they see,.

On 27/07/2017 at 10:11 PM, Nameless Ghoul said:

Just to make you aware, admins do sit logged out of admin 'mode' watching, you just don't know they're admins. This sadly doesn't work anymore as people like to ram now no matter what. Whether there is an admin there or not.

What I object to is admins who know better, going around driving not in admin mode, but just a normal truck and banning people, even doing illegal manoeuvres like overtaking in no passing zones and following too close, it just isn't fair on normal people who end up with punishments from an admin they never saw or knew about, I mean, it's alright for police to use unmarked vehicles because it's easy to stay hidden, but when they're busting people doing so petty things, it's just not fair. 

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^ Well, we are meant to be not seen. That's the point of the admins. Sometimes we go for a drive (rarely) and get into some trouble so we have to sort it out there and then. It doesn't matter what status we are, driving, unmarked car, in dev cam, if you're doing something wrong you're going to be punished for it and all that matters is an admin saw you. You don't need to focus on what the admin was doing, the fact is they caught you doing it. Now it has been said in the past admins can break rules, however we don't for that purpose. So we don't seem better than everyone else. If we're driving we may overtake to get to the chaos in front. When logged out of admin, you're right, it's best to not ban people, however we do and will, for that reason. People will commit an offence and not know we're there, and we use that to our advantage. We're not going to sit there, and watch it happen because we're logged out. We have the power to deal with it and we will.

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Regards,

Nameless Ghoul.

 

Current Advisor of

TruckersMP.com

 

Player Reports: https://truckersmp.com/reports

Ban Appeal: https://truckersmp.com/appeals

Game Rules: https://truckersmp.com/rules

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15 hours ago, Nameless Ghoul said:

^ Well, we are meant to be not seen. That's the point of the admins. Sometimes we go for a drive (rarely) and get into some trouble so we have to sort it out there and then. It doesn't matter what status we are, driving, unmarked car, in dev cam, if you're doing something wrong you're going to be punished for it and all that matters is an admin saw you. You don't need to focus on what the admin was doing, the fact is they caught you doing it. Now it has been said in the past admins can break rules, however we don't for that purpose. So we don't seem better than everyone else. If we're driving we may overtake to get to the chaos in front. When logged out of admin, you're right, it's best to not ban people, however we do and will, for that reason. People will commit an offence and not know we're there, and we use that to our advantage. We're not going to sit there, and watch it happen because we're logged out. We have the power to deal with it and we will.

But that's not fair to those who don't know it, if an admin is marked up and someone commits an offence, then that's fair to ban them because they did it right then and there, but when seemingly random people ban because "they can" or because something happens on their screen that doesn't happen on others.

 

for example, about a year+ ago I got banned by an admin that was "logged out", all it began with was that we were coming to the end of the C-D road at the Duisburg side, the section where the road gets winding with all the elevation changes and S-turns, when this truck blew past me as we entered a S-turn where the road markings clearly show no overtaking, followed by a friend, the admin cut me off in the no overtaking zone, then lagged in front of me, so I instinctively swerved into the oncoming lanes to avoid hitting him and almost hit his friend off the road, the admin then proceeded to drive at sub 20 MPH talking al, sorts of trash in chat but because he was logged out, I assumed he was just another irate truck driver acting like a idiot so ignored it, we turned towards Duisburg and the admin was lagging so bad on my screen that I decided to overtake him because of the lag and the stupidly slow speed, as I did so he sped up and hung me out in the oncoming lanes with oncoming traffic approaching so I cut over to the centre of the road to give room for all of us to fit through, yet on the admins screen we probably made about as much contact as scrapping a small amount of paint off our mirrors, suddenly a message popped up saying I was banned.

 

 

so how can you tell me that it's fair for admins to be offline yet still able to ban someone, especially if they are in the wrong in the first place? 

 

I persobally would rather see offline admins act like off duty cops and call it in so on duty admins can come and make the decision, at least then it would be fair, or have a admin only PM marker that can be used to send messages to players, to caution them on their actions, that would make everyone's life easier and would stop all the false flags and random bans happening.

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The simple answer is don't do anything that breaks a rule. Then you will not be punished in the first place. Admins are not going to waste time passing information on when we have the power to deal with it there and then. The only person to blame at that point is the person that broke a rule. What isn't fair is users causing chaos for other users and us letting them get away with it and carry on driving. So the simple answer, dont break the rules. We add evidence to show where the user was banned so they can see that and know they commited an offense. If we're logged in many people wouldn't cause an offense because an admin is there.

 

We ban a lot of people in a session and we don't have time to waste.

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Regards,

Nameless Ghoul.

 

Current Advisor of

TruckersMP.com

 

Player Reports: https://truckersmp.com/reports

Ban Appeal: https://truckersmp.com/appeals

Game Rules: https://truckersmp.com/rules

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8 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

so how can you tell me that it's fair for admins to be offline yet still able to ban someone, especially if they are in the wrong in the first place? 

 

Hold on a second, they are here to keep away as many of the trolls as possible. As player I come here to kill some time and relax - the only legit reason to worry about admins is when I intend to break the rules.

 

Also about your case,from what you described, it looks more like admin violating the rules, so you could've report him for that - rules are rules and they apply for everyone

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15 hours ago, Nameless Ghoul said:

The simple answer is don't do anything that breaks a rule. Then you will not be punished in the first place. Admins are not going to waste time passing information on when we have the power to deal with it there and then. The only person to blame at that point is the person that broke a rule. What isn't fair is users causing chaos for other users and us letting them get away with it and carry on driving. So the simple answer, dont break the rules. We add evidence to show where the user was banned so they can see that and know they commited an offense. If we're logged in many people wouldn't cause an offense because an admin is there.

 

We ban a lot of people in a session and we don't have time to waste.

But surely if you guys are logged in, then people won't commit offences, but if you're "undercover" then chaos will prevail because the trolls, the rammers etc, they feel they can get away without consequence, even though there's an undercover admin there, if someone is foolish enough to troll in front of a marked admin, well then they deserve all they get, but let's say, someone's running behind so starts recklessly driving, if there's a marked admin there, then chances are they will stamp the brakes and act normal to avoid suspicions, whereas if an unmarked admin is there, chances are they could pass the admin and wreck seconds later and block the road.

 

So in my opinion, more marked admins is better than unmarked because it has the same affect as seeing a marked police car IRL people tend to behave more and follow rules more, compared to unmarked. 

 

14 hours ago, FirestarteR93 said:

 

Hold on a second, they are here to keep away as many of the trolls as possible. As player I come here to kill some time and relax - the only legit reason to worry about admins is when I intend to break the rules.

 

Also about your case,from what you described, it looks more like admin violating the rules, so you could've report him for that - rules are rules and they apply for everyone

It's all about thinking about it from a normal persons pov, if you're blowing through traffic and such and suddenly get banned, you're likely to get annoyed and wonder how because you didn't see any admin so are likely to spam the feedback, appeals and forums about it, whereas if you blow past a marked admin and the same thing happens, then you can more easily chalk it up as a stupid mistake and move on, it's all about psychology, if you can get into the mind of someone breaking rules, you can prevent further incidents and issues.

 

and as for my case, I didn't report the admin because I did not want to disrespect an authority figure, but you ask those who regularly drive the roads and it happens more frequently than it should where admins that are offline e bend and break rules just to get somewhere, the same rules they stand to uphold against others.

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I'd say it wouldn't make a different if they're undercover or not. Players can see there names when they make server announcements so I doubt anything would change. I do see players breaking rules in front of admins when i'm driving and in my opinion I think staff would rather catch the rule breakers without baiting them. -1 for this idea i'm afraid.. sorry :( 

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8 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

But surely if you guys are logged in, then people won't commit offences, but if you're "undercover" then chaos will prevail because the trolls, the rammers etc, they feel they can get away without consequence, even though there's an undercover admin there, if someone is foolish enough to troll in front of a marked admin, well then they deserve all they get, but let's say, someone's running behind so starts recklessly driving, if there's a marked admin there, then chances are they will stamp the brakes and act normal to avoid suspicions, whereas if an unmarked admin is there, chances are they could pass the admin and wreck seconds later and block the road.

 

So in my opinion, more marked admins is better than unmarked because it has the same affect as seeing a marked police car IRL people tend to behave more and follow rules more, compared to unmarked.

No you're right marked ones are better. Sometimes however it's nice to catch people in the act.

Regards,

Nameless Ghoul.

 

Current Advisor of

TruckersMP.com

 

Player Reports: https://truckersmp.com/reports

Ban Appeal: https://truckersmp.com/appeals

Game Rules: https://truckersmp.com/rules

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10 hours ago, megadethsteve666 said:

....

I don't see how reporting an admin is disrespectful in any way. Also the only minor exceptions in the rules are for admins who are on duty and they apply only when its necessary to fulfil their duty.

 

Anyway, when you get reported at the  website and get banned, you still don't see the admin, so i doubt if seeing admin will make huge difference - after all, people should behave properly even when there's no admins.

 

In other words, I don't care at all if you get annoyed because you got banned - I care that you ruined other people's gameplay (messed them up/insulted them) and that you should  pay the price for it.  You are responsible for your actions and getting banned is just a result of these actions. 

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^

Completely support this.

It isn't fair on those users who pay for the game and wish to use it for its purpose.

 

Edited by DerAmpelmann
Removed unnecessary quotation. Please refer to the previous post with "^" or tag (@) the person.

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15 hours ago, Nameless Ghoul said:

No you're right marked ones are better. Sometimes however it's nice to catch people in the act.

I mean let's face it, it doesn't matter whether an admin is on or offline, people will still break rules.

 

13 hours ago, FirestarteR93 said:

I don't see how reporting an admin is disrespectful in any way. Also the only minor exceptions in the rules are for admins who are on duty and they apply only when its necessary to fulfil their duty.

 

Anyway, when you get reported at the  website and get banned, you still don't see the admin, so i doubt if seeing admin will make huge difference - after all, people should behave properly even when there's no admins.

 

In other words, I don't care at all if you get annoyed because you got banned - I care that you ruined other people's gameplay (messed them up/insulted them) and that you should  pay the price for it.  You are responsible for your actions and getting banned is just a result of these actions. 

It's more about having respect for authority figures, I mean, what if that admin was offline but got a report of an incident down the road that they could attend to without dev cam? 

 

Its more on principle for for those who "bend" the rules, for example, I've seen people get banned from the server for doing 10 over the speed limit in a quietist area, by admins that aren't even visible to anyone.

 

i mean take it from our POV you're driving along, everything is fine on your screen, yet let's say on an admins screen who is unmarked, you're all over the road, excessively accelerating and tailgating etc, you get banned for reckless driving, by an admin you never saw or knew about, it's pretty unfair, especially with desync and it is a common occurrence at certain times.

 

in my personal opinion, I'd rather admins hide in plain sight so that if someone's stupid enough to break the rules then and there, then it's a fair deal, but when an admin is hidden and such, it's just not fair for the average driver, I mean, it's not like everyone drives trucks for a living or is immune to making mistakes, and I've seen ruthless unmarked admins just ban indescriminately for minor mistakes or who look at a situation and read it wrong, I've seen guys get kicked by nmsrked admins for "overtaking in a high traffic zone" (myself included) when in actual fact, we are the ones who were in line but got pushed out of line by some kid screaming down off the side of the road and barging in. 

 

So honestly, the more marked admins are, the better more presence equals more behaviour, especially in busy areas, it's like owning a burglar alarm, it only ever alerts you after the windows smashed and stuff is taken, that's what it's like with unmarked admins, it doesn't stop incidents from happening, they just clear up the mess after the incident occurs.

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20 minutes ago, megadethsteve666 said:

I've seen people get banned from the server for doing 10 over the speed limit in a quietist area

Going 10 over the limit is not a bannable offence, unless you are doing it in a really busy area (like Duisburg) and cause an accident which would have been prevented had you been following the limit in a laggy area. either way, I've never seen anybody get banned for that. So, you can probably file a complaint for that admin if what you mentioned is indeed true.

20 minutes ago, megadethsteve666 said:

you're all over the road, excessively accelerating and tailgating

Well, there you have it. You are recklessly driving, which is against the rules. Admins don't ban for desync, if you had to go into the oncoming lane due to desync you can appeal it and will most likely get the ban lifted. That being said, if you weren't tailgating the guy before that. By your posts in this thread seems like you think breaking the rules should be acceptable as long as no admin is present, and when an admin is not visible but is there its not fair. No, I think whats not fair is ruining other people's gameplay. And breaking the rules, which you should be banned for. Admin there or not, if you do something stupid in a high population area, chances are somebody got it on video and will file a report. Hope you get what I'm saying, but admins are here to keep the game clean. There shouldn't be restrictions as to when they should or shouldn't be able to do that, and you really shouldn't be worried about that if you don't break the rules as mentioned above. If its an innocent mistake and you have evidence to prove it, you can make an appeal. Mistakes can happen regardless if an admin is present or not. Having a marked admin there doesn't mean you're now not prone to mistakes. Hope you understand.

 

Regards,

sko0923.

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On 27.7.2017 at 10:32 PM, Ghoost123 BIH said:

Maybe its funny but undercover admins will most likely do better then now. When people see admin starts to kick players everybody becomes serious. But if you put undercover admin everybody all the time will be good players and less crashes

 

If that was true,  the fact that every player can report rule violations would have already decreased the amount of incidents.

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23 hours ago, sko0923 said:

Going 10 over the limit is not a bannable offence, unless you are doing it in a really busy area (like Duisburg) and cause an accident which would have been prevented had you been following the limit in a laggy area. either way, I've never seen anybody get banned for that. So, you can probably file a complaint for that admin if what you mentioned is indeed true.

Well, there you have it. You are recklessly driving, which is against the rules. Admins don't ban for desync, if you had to go into the oncoming lane due to desync you can appeal it and will most likely get the ban lifted. That being said, if you weren't tailgating the guy before that. By your posts in this thread seems like you think breaking the rules should be acceptable as long as no admin is present, and when an admin is not visible but is there its not fair. No, I think whats not fair is ruining other people's gameplay. And breaking the rules, which you should be banned for. Admin there or not, if you do something stupid in a high population area, chances are somebody got it on video and will file a report. Hope you get what I'm saying, but admins are here to keep the game clean. There shouldn't be restrictions as to when they should or shouldn't be able to do that, and you really shouldn't be worried about that if you don't break the rules as mentioned above. If its an innocent mistake and you have evidence to prove it, you can make an appeal. Mistakes can happen regardless if an admin is present or not. Having a marked admin there doesn't mean you're now not prone to mistakes. Hope you understand.

 

Regards,

sko0923.

I've seen some weird bans in my time, from the most rediculous to the most petty, it's just a part of life in TMP really, besides, what grounds would I have to lie? I'm not that kind of person.

 

second, please read the full statement before quoting snippets that have 0 context, what the context was, is that sometimes, because of desync and lag, you can be perceived by others, including admins, as driving recklessly, when in fact you're not. Yes, if someone is driving recklessly on purpose, then by all means ban them, what I'm talking about is the times where lag and desync make it look like something it's not. 

 

In in all honesty, the report system as it stands should be modified to capture in the background your session and save it to a separate server, but to avoid that going into the millions of GBs required, after every session, if nothing happens and a specific command not entered, then the data is overwritten, that way, people don't have to rely on 3rd party sources for video evidence that is subject to maintainable/corruption or disconnection (believe me it's annoying when you're driving and something happens, so go to save the recording to find the program glitches and didn't record a damn second).

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@megadethsteve666 All I was trying to say is that if its an innocent mistake, such as perceived reckless driving due to desync, you can't control that regardless if you know an admin is present or not. You can't just magically avoid all cases of mistakes happening with the knowledge an admin is present, and if you can, I don't see why you would use that magic all the time. That's all I was getting at. And that admins should have the right to ban whenever they see a legitimate offence being committed.

 

Regards,

sko0923. 

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