Rules are beginning to turn TruckerMP into "safe space".

[RickyWong]

I have a MASSIVE problem with this rule:

"Insulting - UPDATED

Swearing or using words that may be deemed inappropriate towards other users, staff, or others. This can situationally apply on other services as well as TruckersMP."

Seriously?? I mean, of course it's right of those in charge to make the rules, but I am merely pointing out that it is really starting to make the admins look like extremely sensitive snowflakes - no offense meant, just calling a spade a spade.
This rule is beyond a joke and is akin the the PC insanity we are seeing in our Western universities!!
The rules should be based upon rationale and safety, not appeals to emotion! In any case, this is a truck driving simulator - have you ever actually listened to how they talk IRL over the CB?? In other words, if one cannot handle a few naughty words or an insult, then one should simply not drive trucks ever - real OR simulated!
Another concern with this new rule is that FAR too many people take criticism as insults. I really feel you're going to be opening a can of worms with that one. "Deemed inappropriate"?? That could mean ANYTHING!
I sincerely hope you re-consider this rule and all of its unforeseen/unintended consequences

[Truckerpilot]

I think you are forgetting that their are also younger kids who use the Forums as well as people who do not use offensive language. The rule was created so that the forums would be a inviting place to all ages old and young. You may see it as a rule that dosent make any sense but because of this rule is why alot of people actually enjoy browsing on the forums and being apart of the community. Knowing that they dont have to worry about someone insulting them or using offensive language to them gives them a sense of SAFETY insulting and otherwise bad language is considered UNSAFE And can have many emotional effects on people as not every handles an insult the same. Insulting and using offensive language towards another person is one of the main reason alot of young teens result to cutting and other harmful acts towards themselves. People can take Constrictive Criticism but using offensive language and other inappropriate words is insulting. You may be able to handle these types of situation but not everyone has the same mindset as you so you should think about this before saying that this rule makes no sense because i see it as a logical and well needed rule

 

[Guest]

Hello @RickyWong.  This community is made up of all ages, from the very young to quite a lot older.  There is no place in this community for disrespect.  We are all mature and friendly and are here to enjoy the trucks and the mod and the community.  I would not want kids exposed to bad language and insulting.  This is nothing about sensitive people or PC, this is about creating a safe and friendly environment for all.  

 

Secondly, that rule is there to protect people who make a report so that the perpetrator cannot send them insults and threats.  

 

If you are unhappy with this, I suggest you look at this page and send an email to [email protected] 

 

[stilldre1976]

Well said oolala11

 

If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it...

[RickyWong]

"Knowing that they dont have to worry about someone insulting them or using offensive language to them gives them a sense of SAFETY insulting and otherwise bad language is considered UNSAFE And can have many emotional effects on people as not every handles an insult the same."

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This claim is just flat out false. Have you ever been to Australia and do you have any idea of the concept of context? Here, (and the UK, NZ, SA to name some others) use the "C-BOMB" sometimes as a term of endearment. It is part of our culture.
I suffer from Type 2 Bi-polar disorder and civilian PTSD, but I do not expect people to "tread on eggshells" around me, so-to-speak. The onus is upon ME to remove myself from the situation or take steps to mitigate any uncontrollable emotions I may be experiencing.
I do not think it is the place or even really the business of admins to act as "protectors" of people's emotions.
Lastly, I was referring to DRIVING safety and I'm pretty sure you knew that. Please don't twist my meaning.

"This community is made up of all ages, from the very young to quite a lot older."

Your point? So we should wrap kids in cotton wool then? Don't be ridiculous. Teens hear a lot worse on TV.

"Secondly, that rule is there to protect people who make a report so that the perpetrator cannot send them insults and threats."

I agree with threats being not allowed, but "insult" can be anything from "you're silly", to "nice driving, moron", to much worse! Where do you draw the line and what is wrong with pointing out that someone is a moron, when they are behaving like a moron??
I appeal to you all to think more critically on this issue - like along the lines of Voltaire.
But I will take your advice and send an email. Thank you.

"If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it..."

Case in point. Appeal to emotion and therefore not an argument. At all.
My retort is simply this: If you don't have anything intelligent to say then don't say it...

Cheers.

(you can lock this if you want)

[Aragon]

Swearing/insulting is something done voluntarily, when someone is getting on your nerves, you can think what you want but the moment you type it publicly on our services that can get you banned. When we say we have people of all ages here, we literally mean the game is rated for 3+. You really want that young of a kid hearing those kinds of words? You may your own opinion about that but I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

[AbbieGator]

You are aware that this rule hasn't even been updated that much. This rule has been in the ruleset for years and as @Aragon has mentioned, insulting is something that you make a choice to do. Why do I have to deal with anyone being an inconsiderate person, insulting someone for something that may be an accident, or racism or anything like that?

 

Simply put, the rules will remain as they have been for years.

[Trucking Australia]

Different insults carry different punishments, calling someone silly would not even get a user kicked, and if reported for it, will just be ignored. The whole rule is based on users actually insulting other users, not just saying that they can't drive etc. 

10 minutes ago, RickyWong said:

"This community is made up of all ages, from the very young to quite a lot older."

Your point? So we should wrap kids in cotton wool then? Don't be ridiculous. Teens hear a lot worse on TV.

 

 

The point is that we have kids in this game, not just teens. How would you react if a 7-year-old said the F word to you or something worse? If the parents caught or hear their child saying such insults to another person in the real world, we don't want to be the game that taught them that word. It is about keeping the community child-friendly and not Call of Duty style with insults flying in every direction. 

 

To be directly honest here, the rule hasn't changed. It has always been the same and always will be because an insult is an insult and there is no other way to put it. Since your account has been a member since 2015, you should know this and should be able to understand every rule that has been put into place.

 

If you would like the topic to now be locked, please say so in another reply and a moderator or higher staff will lock it for you.

[RickyWong]

"When we say we have people of all ages here, we literally mean the game is rated for 3+. You really want that young of a kid hearing those kinds of words? You may your own opinion about that but I'm pretty sure the answer is no."

I'm sorry mate, but you are really showing your ignorance regarding other cultures. Most Aussie kids of that age are exposed to this kind of language, yet somehow we manage ok as a society.
I guess it is because most of us seem more concerned with teaching them critical thinking as opposed to allowing their own emotions to consume them.
Look, no "naughty language" I disagree with, but can handle. That's actually NOT what I'm complaining about here. But "insults" it just way too vague and like I said seems way too open to interpretation. Yet again i ask, where do you draw the line?
I guess what I'm asking is for more clarity and less ambiguity.... and I'm well aware of the rules and have been since I joined. "Abuse" or "harassment" is NOT the same as "insult". Nice try though.

I'd like to hear your answer before the topic is locked. Y'know - open discussion and free exchange of ideas and all that?

[stilldre1976]

that's down to bad parenting then if kids are hearing that sort of language tbh theres no need at all to type profanities onscreen when you can say it out loud as much as you want in the comfort of your own home.

[Alex KERNEL]

@RickyWong, @RickyWong (Maybe it's a glitch, but the two of you).

 

I personally know players who play with their minor children. Their children are the same participants in the game, indirectly, not being participants of traffic, they are present in the game. Hear everything that happens in CB Radio, will see everything that is written in chat, forum. Regardless of culture, nation - there are rules of etiquette, nurturing, and subordination. If you can afford insults, this does not mean that such accept other members of the community. The administration of this community doing the right thing, adhering to cultural norms of communication. @stilldre1976, rights, what you can afford at home, may not be acceptable to the community.

[RickyWong]

"that's down to bad parenting then if kids are hearing that sort of language tbh theres no need at all to type profanities onscreen when you can say it out loud as much as you want in the comfort of your own home."

Why is it bad parenting? What studies can you cite that show that children are adversely affected by hearing bad language? I'm genuinely curious.
You do realise that there is no such thing as living in a vacuum, right? 
In any case, I repeat (YET AGAIN), while I have issues with the rules on profanity, I begrudgingly accept them. It's the extremely vague reference to "insults" and "deemed inappropriate" that most concerns me... and STILL no-one has answered where the line is to be drawn. The only thing I've heard is that calling someone "silly" won't get you banned. What about "idiot", "moron", "douchebag", "numpty", etc? Or what about even being extremely sarcastic?

Oh, and while we're on the subject of "insults" the reference made about "choosing" to insult people, could be seen as offensive to someone who suffers from any number of mental illnesses (which ironically was also mentioned earlier). Like I sometimes have literally NO control over my emotions from time to time, some have no control over what they say, either. Would something like that be ever taken into consideration?
But even if you believe that people always CHOOSE to insult people, then it could also be said that people CHOOSE to take offense.
Do any of you now see why this is not as clear-cut or "black-and-white" an issue as you'd like to think it is? 
Perhaps the rule could be worded better?
My fear is that your "community" will become one where almost no-one interacts with anyone else for fear of saying the wrong thing and "triggering" somebody.
If you are all so concerned about mental illness, then perhaps you should consider that having to "tread on eggshells" around people is almost never good for one's mental state.

On a (hopefully) final (side) note, I don't think it's a good idea from the perspective of the admins to be psychoanalysts or "protectors of people's feelings" for players on such a huge server. You WILL burn yourselves out. Trust me, I know this from experience.

[konfig0]

Admins aren"t special snowflakes, and aren't sensitive either. You"ll have to thank the people who can't behave themselves for it. Also, that swearing is a part in your culture doesn't mean it's normal for the rest of the world. This game is rated +3 years of age, so insulting is a natural rule coming in to play because we won't teach kids bad things (apart from it being seriously disrespectful!).

 

Final point/general tip for everyone: if you can't control your emotions, just insult your monitor if insulting makes you feel better!

[RickyWong]

Ok, now you guys either cannot read or you're trolling me. How many times must I explain what my ACTUAL concerns are???

"Admins aren"t special snowflakes, and aren't sensitive either."

Did you not read the part that said "look like" - as in - it make you guys APPEAR that way?
Look, I get why it was implemented. I'm not a complete idiot.
I'm pointing out the potential problems with it. You can choose to ignore it, or take it on board. I've presented my arguments, but NO-ONE has come back with a valid, rational argument in response. All I've seen is logical fallacy after logical fallacy.
But it is ultimately your server(s), so it's your choice.

PS: In regard to teaching kids, "bad things", I would argue that you're potentially encouraging them not to think for themselves. But yet again, I will state what I said earlier (this time in caps so you hopefully actually read it):

WHILE I HAVE ISSUE WITH THE PROFANITY RULE, I BEGRUDGINGLY ACCEPT IT. THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS WITH THE INCREDIBLY VAGUE REFERENCES TO "INSULTS" AND WHAT IS TO BE "DEEMED INAPPROPRIATE".

[konfig0]

I did, but that was a simple clarification. Not only you will read this, but a few hundred other users will read this thread aswell which means that I generalize replies, and am not replying to someone in particular unless quoted.

 

Anyhow, this rule has been here for a few years now - we never had problems with it and I suppose we don't have now either. I see a lot of people communicating with eachother here on this forum, in-game servers and our discord so I don't see where the insulting rules affects talking to eachother.

[RickyWong]

3 hours ago, Rekoil_ said:

I did, but that was a simple clarification. Not only you will read this, but a few hundred other users will read this thread aswell which means that I generalize replies, and am not replying to someone in particular unless quoted.

 

Anyhow, this rule has been here for a few years now - we never had problems with it and I suppose we don't have now either. I see a lot of people communicating with eachother here on this forum, in-game servers and our discord so I don't see where the insulting rules affects talking to eachother.

Fair enough.

Your rules have been pretty clear cut until now which is why it was probably not a problem.
Forums aren't an issue. People often have much more time to consider a response on forums.

Hypothetical scenario (which can hopefully finally clarify a few things for me):

I'm driving along with high-value cargo from Oslo. I'm an hour away from my destination, which is Budapest.
Then, all of a sudden, another truck sideswipes me, causing me to crash and roll my truck.
If I were to say, "good one, ********!", or "are you pissed, moron?", for example, over voice chat, would I receive a kick/ban?

[konfig0]

Yes, you would since that is considered insulting.

[RickyWong]

1 minute ago, Rekoil_ said:

Yes, you would since that is considered insulting.

Tell me you're kidding.

No, I think the admins simply must share some responsibility for this. Sure, people "misbehaving" might have prompted it, but the rule implemented in response in totally disproportionate to the "crime".
It is really sad to see such regressive behaviour on a server I love to play on. 
I hope that one day soon you will see how detrimental this could potentially be, since vague rules that could easily get people into trouble like this are beginning to suck the fun out of the server. You should be focused on quality players over quantity of players.
Rules like this will not get you quality players.
Don't say I didn't warn ya.

I'm utterly disgusted. Close it please.

[LouiDashcam]

17 minutes ago, RickyWong said:

Tell me you're kidding.

No, I think the admins simply must share some responsibility for this. Sure, people "misbehaving" might have prompted it, but the rule implemented in response in totally disproportionate to the "crime".
It is really sad to see such regressive behaviour on a server I love to play on. 
I hope that one day soon you will see how detrimental this could potentially be, since vague rules that could easily get people into trouble like this are beginning to suck the fun out of the server. You should be focused on quality players over quantity of players.
Rules like this will not get you quality players.
Don't say I didn't warn ya.

I'm utterly disgusted. Close it please.

If you want realistic driving and a friendly environment, try playing on EU1. That server may have a speed limiter but for those that dont want to deal with many trolls on EU2 or EU3 and want to play the game realistic as possible, EU1 is the place for a actual driver that wants to play the game.  

[stilldre1976]

Ricky am sure you know how the mp works on this game by now it says you've been playing a good few years so am sure you know how the trolls work by now in that scenario you posted you know as well as me that a troll will wreck your load and wait for the abuse why? cos the troll knows getting you banned for rising your temper,you gotta be smart about it and not fall into there little games.

 

I know we hear it all the time about record and report and theres a good reason for doing it and that's to rid the game of trolls or people who don't want to enjoy the game like we do,if I report someone and they banned for an amount of time am happy in the knowledge to know they wont be out trolling other people and that's how the community works on here. we all do our little bit which makes the whole

 

Quote

My fear is that your "community" will become one where almost no-one interacts with anyone else for fear of saying the wrong thing and "triggering" somebody.

that's a bit unfair tbh once you attend one of the big tmp convoys or many of the community convoys held everyday that people enjoy interacting with others you would see that's not the case.

end of the day we all enjoy this trucking sim or we wouldn't be here.

[BDoSCT_Foxx]

This might have already been mentioned, but if it has not, I'll say this. I hate how I cannot voice my opinion on how I am starting to dislike TruckersMP greatly for most of their rules. I went on a big rant on Twitter and also insulted them on how my ban is straight up absurd. This ended up with me getting my ban extended from 2-3 days, to 1 whole week. (This was before the rule, "This can situationally apply on other services".) This makes me think that TruckersMP is kindergarden where kids are expected to behave like little angels, and not disobey any rules. What do you think is gonna happen if someone gets cut off many times by a small car that can potentially ruin their day? They will most likely get lit up with rage, and voice their opinion on how mental they are. But in TruckersMP, we are expected to keep our mouth shut, and treat everyone with kindness and respect. 

[Spieker]

4 hours ago, stilldre1976 said:

that's down to bad parenting then if kids are hearing that sort of language

This is completely absurd. Kids learn insults and profanity in kindergarten, in school, on TV...

The point is that it's stupid and useless to try to keep 'bad language' away from kids because it will NEVER work, no matter how many people you ban here. We're on the internet here, and if parents allow their 6 year old child to play online games, that may be irresponsible, but you can't blame TruckersMP or their users for that. Fact is that punishment for 'insulting' and 'profanity' are often WAY to hard.

[Daniellus]

This community is one of the best i have been to. Why? Because of big culture. No bad language, no insulting, just forum for truck players. If you dont like that - leave, nobody is blocking you here. In my opinion rules of that are good, dont agree with your sentenses. 

Best regards

[RickyWong]

48 minutes ago, Loui27 said:

If you want realistic driving and a friendly environment, try playing on EU1. That server may have a speed limiter but for those that dont want to deal with many trolls on EU2 or EU3 and want to play the game realistic as possible, EU1 is the place for a actual driver that wants to play the game.  

Yeah, in future, any reference to "IRL" or "realism" will be totally invalid. This argument cannot be used honestly anymore, ever.
One cannot cherry-pick different aspects of "realism" and expect to be taken seriously. However I thank you for taking the time to make the suggestion.

"cos the troll knows getting you banned for rising your temper,you gotta be smart about it and not fall into there little games."

Easy for you to say. Do YOU suffer from type-2 bi-polar disorder???
Lucky for you, I am not easily offended, or that statement could be seen as "insulting" to anyone with the same condition. Also, if anyone knows ANYTHING about neuroscience, they'd know that in situations like these, subconscious thinking can, in part, come into play. 
So, the reference made earlier about people always choosing to insult people is totally wrong. Flat. Out. Wrong.

"that's a bit unfair tbh once you attend one of the big tmp convoys or many of the community convoys held everyday that people enjoy interacting with others you would see that's not the case.

end of the day we all enjoy this trucking sim or we wouldn't be here."

It's totally not unfair. All it shows is that there are the "elite" groups... and then there's everybody else.

Bottom line: It is completely infantilising, condescending and disrespectful or, if you like, INSULTING to people who happen to think differently to you to impose such authoritarian measures and tell people they can't even call people an "idiot" when they're acting like.... idiots. If that's not behaving like a regressive snowflake then I don't know what is. Please, someone enlighten me.
Imagine if Judge Judy (which is on daytime TV in Australia when small toddlers can see it) decided to start playing ETS2. She would not last 5 mins. She'd say someone was a "moron and full of baloney" and she'd be kicked, despite plenty of 3 year olds being exposed to it. Basically, the "its rated for 3+" argument is complete and utter BALONEY - especially when characters on CHILDREN'S shows often call each other "idiots", "cretins" or even "morons".
If you want people to stop behaving like children on the server, then stop treating us like children!! THAT'S insulting - but somehow I don't see anyone is likely to be honest about it and kick themselves for that, are they?

[stilldre1976]

Quote

Do YOU suffer from type-2 bi-polar disorder???

No I don't rick not sure why you would be offended by what I said tbh whats stopping you from having a moan in your room instead of typing it on screen or on the cb?