The abuse of save editing and the consequences

[Guest [OCSC Event] Antho]

Hello dear community,

I decided to create this topic for everyone to react with their opinions on the subject of "save edit abuse" on TruckersMP and "its consequences".

Indeed, the fact that TruckersMP allows us to save edit our trucks on their multiplayer mod, this gives us more fun to enjoy the game with our friends, and the large community of players present by showing our trucks in game.

However, I've come across all sorts of save-edited trucks, some of which don't really look like trucks anymore. We can see players abusing the save edit by placing accessories from other truck brands than their own truck. I'm not so much against this if the use is minimal and it makes the truck look better. But many players abuse it and literally distort the beauty of the trucks.
Like these 2 examples: (explain to me which brand it is)

Unlike other players who don't abuse it and make their trucks really beautiful: 

 

Picture of the truck of @AzertyFive_TMP who allowed me to post his truck ^^

 

In addition to this, there is a relatively recurrent problem on TMP. If some players abuse the save edit, they will cause synchronization problems with other players since every PC configuration of the players around this individual will be impacted and will reduce their resources.
I (like many players) have had my game crash many times due to a player using too much save edit : 

Does it make sense to you that the TMP gaming community should suffer through their PC performance due to the abuse of save edit by some players?
This is totally detrimental to the game environment of a multiplayer mod and greatly reduces the enjoyment of the game.

This is not a suggestion to remove the save edit. I myself have been using it recently thanks to many contacts who advised me to join discord servers where we can easily learn save edit and find all sorts of accessories or modifications, but I think save edit should really be controlled more strongly or TruckersMP should be asked to think clearly about this situation which degrades everyone's game experience.

 

Hopefully some of you will react to this topic and share your opinions like I did. 

 

Sincerely to you all,

Antho, OCSC Event founder,

[Мелочь Бубуче]

Hillow,

 

I fully agreed on this post.
Save edit should be REALLY framed in rules, like quoting shortly and clearly what is allowed, and what is forbidden.
I do use Save Edit, especially for 750hp and some features like trailers triple configurations, but those are "little" save edit in my opinion, in the way it does not impact that much experience of game of others. 

For the point of ressources, I can say that I gladly have a (very) good laptop, so it does not cause me FPS drop as many players, but I have a (very too) poor connection and that cause me huge desync that can lead to collision in crowd areas.

Yours,

Lau | Мелочь Бубуче

[Flaming.]

2 hours ago, [OCSC Event] Antho said:

Does it make sense to you that the TMP gaming community should suffer through their PC performance due to the abuse of save edit by some players?
This is totally detrimental to the game environment of a multiplayer mod and greatly reduces the enjoyment of the game.

Save edits that cause a negative impact on other players aren't allowed. 

 

I do agree that the save editing rules aren't strict enough, but save edits that are allowed within our rules don't impact other players. 

[Guest [OCSC Event] Antho]

3 hours ago, Flaming. said:

Save edits that cause a negative impact on other players aren't allowed. 

 

I do agree that the save editing rules aren't strict enough, but save edits that are allowed within our rules don't impact other players. 

Ok so explain me why we're always kicked from the TMP Servers when we cross a player who abused of the save edits ?

Of course, when we are kicked that's not only us (alone) but every players around the guy who abused save edits.... so there is really no impact ? or it's just due to the servers of TMP that are not enough strong to support this thing ?
(I dont know, I'm not dev but I'd know why we always crashed if you're sure of you that there is no impact , maybe show us a proof ^^)

[Killua // Ireland ^_^]

I think the current save editing rules are great, as long as save editis do not cause any gameplay issues then I see no issue, I also tend to use those type of save edited trucks while some save edits looks a bit strange its just a game and some like that style

[Flaming.]

20 minutes ago, [OCSC Event] Antho said:

Ok so explain me why we're always kicked from the TMP Servers when we cross a player who abused of the save edits ?

Could you clarify what you mean? Do you mean kicked for high ping and/or unreliable connection? That wouldn't have anything to do with save edits. 

 

I'm not sure how to prove there is no impact, you can't prove a negative. If you find other people's save edits impact your performance, feel free to submit a report. 

[Guest [OCSC Event] Antho]

13 minutes ago, Killua // Ireland ^_^ said:

I think the current save editing rules are great, as long as save editis do not cause any gameplay issues then I see no issue, I also tend to use those type of save edited trucks while some save edits looks a bit strange its just a game and some like that style

 

The problem being that the save edit adds too much resource requirements of every player's PC configuration on the game, and when many players in an area crash when only one player has caused this problem due to too many accessories being added through the save edit, I don't think it's very appreciable...
Personally, it happened again this weekend on C-D, I was out playing with friends and everyone got a return window after the game crashed due to one player abusing the save edit, and I remember everyone being pretty angry.

Destroying the game experience of a majority of players because of some people clearly abusing the save edit, is for me something that TMP should try to think about in order to provide a better game environment for all in the future.
Maybe 100 accessories is too much, or other solutions should be found.... The game servers of TMP may have their impact too ? I don't know as I said, I'm not a dev or in that domain. However, it's still very annoying for many to have game crashs because of a minority of people, but if TMP doesn't do anything about it, then everything is fine as you point out with @Flaming.

[HandOfClash]

Hey! 

I've read the comments posted within this discussion and do understand your point, whilst save edit via the pictures visible isn't causing crashes just cause the truck itself is looking unrealistic. In short, every save edit could technically cause a crash for others if the game code is badly done, as far as I know and been told. - and no, that has nothing to do with TruckersMP. It just needs to be one item causing it - no matter of the other save edit(s) from the player. 

Us Game Moderators were looking into the issue(s) (since we were also facing them ourself) and are still trying to figure out what is causing it most of the time. Players them self, which seem to cause the issue(s), are not even knowing nor noticing it them self and the truck as well as trailer which is possibly causing it just looks as pretty (positively said) as the truck in the screenshot attached by you above. - the Scania in blue. 

- - -

Regarding your "suggestion" in the first place. I guess TruckersMP could enforce their rules more in regards to realism whilst I still got the following question for you: 

What is realistic? How far goes realism and how would you like to implement such a rule? Isn't it just a game at the end of the day? Think about it twice and find a solid reason for us to ban others, permanently until removed, from the game due to their save edit(s). 

> To give you the answer already: there won't be any solid reason to ban people for it, apart from the rule which is already existing.
 

§3 - Save Editing

Causing extreme lag or game crashes by save editing is not permitted. Extreme lag will not occur from duplicate parts unless the amount is truly excessive. If you save edit to create a very long trailer combination but cannot safely handle it, you are liable to be banned for reckless driving and/or blocking and it is recommended that you remove the particular modification(s). If the Game Moderation Management thinks that your modification is not fit for our servers or negatively impacts other people, you are liable to be banned until the modification has been removed.

Whenever their save edit does affect others, they will be banned; and as I explained above do those which cause crashes get indeed banned by us. Reporting those is helping us, obviously with solid evidence. You may wonder when & how? 

1. Our game does crash as well (my game crashed a few times at convoys possibly due to that since the newest version), not only yours or the one from players, hence banning them live is pretty hard. Usually do several trucks still stay/remain within the area, since flying around and F1'ing is preventing apparently the crash, which doesn't make it easier to punish the one which is causing it right away. The game unfortunately doesn't say who it might be. 
2. It takes time to get to know who is causing it. Surely you don't want to be unfairly banned nor want that the one which is causing it doesn't get a ban, right.
3. It isn't always obvious, which you, as far as I understood, mentioned above. Just cause a truck is looking bad it doesn't mean its causing a crash nor exzessive lag, which if it does, would be punishable. 
4. Changing the limit of the accessory would not only cause frustration for the ones loving save edit, but also doesn't make a change. 100 is pretty low already, considering that my own truck is having 70-80 as of now, looking exactly like the one posted by you. As said, one item could already cause it. (Just as you, I am not a developer and can therefore not fully support my comment.)

Final result:  

Either you entirely remove save edit to prevent crashes or you keep everything how it is. At this point it could be anything causing it (I am not a developer, apology! - so I might be wrong!). Don't worry, those which do, will remove whatever is causing it!

Cheers!

[Guest [OCSC Event] Antho]

Hey @HandOfClash,

 

 

Your explanations are very clear and I agree with it but not totally.

 

The first thing that surprises me, even though the rule you sent me, notifies it. I did not say anything about banning people who have elements that can create a crash. why we always have to talk about bans ? Is it the only one word important on TMP ? And as you explained to me, most of the time, these users don't even know that they are causing the problem.

 

Second thing, although it seems that you notice it too. Ok it's a game and I totally agree with you that everyone can customize their truck in their own way, I find it a real shame to see trucks including parts from all brands. Some don't even look like trucks anymore... I was discussing this with some friends in the evening, and I was telling them that I could do a lot of save edit on a car to add for example truck tyres (of course I was joking) but in view of the save edit rules on TMP ^^

 

And finally, I still say that save edit should not have a place on TMP if the origin of the crashes can't be found. Destroying the game environment of a large majority of players because of a bug that can't be fixed is frustrating for me. But like many other bugs on TMP, it seems that this is not an important issue for TMP apparently ?

 

 

Finally, this is just my point of view, but we have a lot of DLC available through SCS in the Steam library, and if I'm not mistaken, the local mods are much less annoying than the save edit for the whole community since they don't force the resources of others players. 

 

 

[Killua // Ireland ^_^]

3 hours ago, [OCSC Event] Antho said:

 

The problem being that the save edit adds too much resource requirements of every player's PC configuration on the game, and when many players in an area crash when only one player has caused this problem due to too many accessories being added through the save edit, I don't think it's very appreciable...
Personally, it happened again this weekend on C-D, I was out playing with friends and everyone got a return window after the game crashed due to one player abusing the save edit, and I remember everyone being pretty angry.

Destroying the game experience of a majority of players because of some people clearly abusing the save edit, is for me something that TMP should try to think about in order to provide a better game environment for all in the future.
Maybe 100 accessories is too much, or other solutions should be found.... The game servers of TMP may have their impact too ? I don't know as I said, I'm not a dev or in that domain. However, it's still very annoying for many to have game crashs because of a minority of people, but if TMP doesn't do anything about it, then everything is fine as you point out with @Flaming.

save edits add no more resource requirements then normal trucks and 100 accessories is not too much, with all the tuning opinions on some of the trucks you can get quite an awful lot of accessories without ever save editing or duping any parts. 

Most of the time if a save edit is causing crashes its due to someone making a mistake somewhere or more recently it may have been due to the 1.47 update and players using an old save edit that may have changed after the update.

Most save edits even the unrealistic ones never cause crashes or any other issues and if you goto a busy area and drive C-D you will see those sort of save edits often.

["RICKY"]

Hello truckers. 

In the past saved edits gave TMP issues for those who remember, now it's back to the same. 

I even agree with the edits saved, but as long as they are well done and do not cause problems, but the problem is that many do not know how to do this and come up with absurd things. 

Should the TMP put more rules on this? Yes, but on the other hand, it would be more work for the moderation team. 

Hugs and good miles to all. 

[Interstate Nomad]

I would like to thank @[OCSC Event] Antho for sharing your questions and thoughts on save editing.

I understand your frustration with the desktop crashes caused by other players' save edits.

However, the problem is not the save edit rules. It is the lack of a tool to check for possible save edit problems before connecting to multiplayer.

I can't tell you if this is possible or how to do it because I'm not a developer.

The look of other players' save edit trucks is not something you have to like, of course. I don't like the look of the two trucks at the top either.

But whatever appeals and doesn't break the rules is allowed.

[Samderali]

I agree with you on this.

As an Intel Graphics Card user, I'm afraid to walk past coded trucks. While I was barely getting 50 fps, when the coded truck passed by me, the fps drops to 13, which is not good for the players in the back.

Yes, people should make coded trucks, but they should not exaggerate while doing this.

[[G-T-R]GrayWolf]

I agree with you all what you wrote.

I don't know why people try to their truck looks ugly I mean you can add side markers on bumper or grill can be add on lower bumper that's fine  too but check this one he almost cover whole windshield what he thinks and make this I don't get it ?

[Macik Mucuk]

I agree with you all what you wrote.

[HandOfClash]

Hey again, 

Thanks for reading and partly agreeing with my previous comment Antho. I will happily get back to your mentioned inquires now. 
 

12 hours ago, [OCSC Event] Antho said:

The first thing that surprises me, even though the rule you sent me, notifies it. I did not say anything about banning people who have elements that can create a crash. why we always have to talk about bans ? Is it the only one word important on TMP ? And as you explained to me, most of the time, these users don't even know that they are causing the problem.

People which cause crashes for others are indeed getting banned until the item, so truck or trailer, has been removed from the profile which the player is using, as its explained within the rule mentioned by me, to ensure that such crashes won't happen again. Such a ban doesn't hurt and is in fact not causing any issues for the player being banned. Myself as a Game Moderator will of course still try find a different way, whilst its hard when my game is crashing as well.

May I ask you: How else would you like to get rid of whatever is causing the crash, if we not ban the individual player until the issue causing it has been resolved/removed?!

> In fact, there is no other way apart from us possibly asking the player nicely beforehand if they could get rid of it, whilst you need to keep in mind that everyone's game will for the time being continue to crash since the player will continue causing issues until it has been removed, hence I mentioned that they usually don't even notice it them self, meaning that they won't get rid of it until mentioned by us or banned. Its simply logical to issue a ban and to remove it whenever the issue causing it has been resolved, to prevent further crashes for others. 
 

12 hours ago, [OCSC Event] Antho said:

Second thing, although it seems that you notice it too. Ok it's a game and I totally agree with you that everyone can customize their truck in their own way, I find it a real shame to see trucks including parts from all brands. Some don't even look like trucks anymore... I was discussing this with some friends in the evening, and I was telling them that I could do a lot of save edit on a car to add for example truck tyres (of course I was joking) but in view of the save edit rules on TMP ^^

I do fully agree with you that such isn't needed and is totally unrealistic. > nevertheless, and to refer back to my previous comment: what is realistic for you and what is realistic for others? 

As an Example: 

This is the truck which I use on a daily basis. Is the one unrealistic? Possibly?! Is it unrealistic for me? Not at all. Do I try to use items making it look as realistic as possible due to the lack of items I can add on my own to the truck? Yes! Is the truck, however, unrealistic for you?! - who knows. Does it cause any issues for others driving past or next to it: No.

> and the same questions is for everyone driving on TMP. May the player using the truck via the screenshots visible from you is finding their truck good looking and realistic, I can't tell. We all can I guess agree that such doesn't look good, but who knows?! possibly it does for the player them self. Hence the save edit rules are currently written as they are. > As long as the save edit doesn't effect others is it tolerated, as of now. I guess we can always work on a change for the future, if needed. 

 

12 hours ago, [OCSC Event] Antho said:

And finally, I still say that save edit should not have a place on TMP if the origin of the crashes can't be found. Destroying the game environment of a large majority of players because of a bug that can't be fixed is frustrating for me. But like many other bugs on TMP, it seems that this is not an important issue for TMP apparently ?

Whilst I completely understand your frustration have I, as said within my previous comment, mentioned, that we are looking into the issue(s) and are trying our best to find a way to get rid of it. Those crashes have always existed, just that those since the new version happen a few more times than before. Hence I like the following: 

 

8 hours ago, blabberbeak said:

It is the lack of a tool to check for possible save edit problems before connecting to multiplayer.

I can't tell you if this is possible or how to do it because I'm not a developer.

Unfortunately can I neither confirm nor deny if such is possible to implement, since am also not a dev. We have such as system in place, since you do get kicked for using a trailer with a car for example, but I can't tell what else it can do to prevent those crashes. I do hope for the best and I can assure you that we will be trying our best to get rid of the issue(s) mentioned asap and whenever possible. 

Appreciate the discussion! 
Cheers

[Guest [OCSC Event] Antho]

@HandOfClash

 

For the point about bans, I didn't know that the player was permanently banned until it is proven to have removed the issue causing the crash. So yes, the solution is not bad, like the example of the wrong game tags.

 

To the question "what is realistic for you and others?" Indeed, I agree with your point of view, understanding that some people can appreciate this kind of truck with accessories from other trucks and "distorting" the aesthetics of trucks. For them, nothing will be distorted probably.

 

Since you say that these crashes have always existed but that it seems that they happen more frequently due to the new version, then I would hope that TMP will do their best to reduce these crashes in the future or as @blabberbeak said so well, add a tool to prevent the connection to the server if an accessory has a problem.

 

 

Thanks again for your comment on this topic and hope TMP will find more solutions to prevent this problem in the future  

[Flaming.]

Just an update, I was unaware of the crashes happening in game since I have been primarily focusing on webwork. However, the development team released a fix for this bug today. You can read about it here. 

[HandOfClash]

1 hour ago, [OCSC Event] Antho said:

Thanks again for your comment on this topic and hope TMP will find more solutions to prevent this problem in the future  

Cheers, so do I! As my fellow team colleague already mentioned above has an update regarding the crash(es) just been pushed onto the servers! Lets hope that the one will fix the issue(s) regarding the game crash(es)! 

Once again, I really appreciate the short discussion which we had and the overall outcome!
> Apart from the fix will I still try to think about a possible solution regarding the "unrealistic trucks", if there are any. - since that was a point mentioned by you as well. 

Have a great rest of your day and see you all around! 

[Nody]

Heya!

Since your topic has been inactive for over fourteen (14) days, I will lock and move it to our Archive section. 
We apply these procedures in order to keep the forum organized and structured. 

 

If you have any questions, feel free to DM me. 

 

//Locked & Moved to Archive

 

Kind Regards

Nody,

TruckersMP Forum Moderator.