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Jeroen

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4 hours ago, Foobrother said:

Well, I could reply that this is also an "assumption" 😉

 

Because you think there is a week delay on the reporting system because people love each other and don't have anything to complain about when playing?!

I think, if there is such an amount of reports it's not because the staff is slow or not enough, but because there are looooooots of problems.

 

When you want to solve a problem, first you have to identify and name the problem. Yes it's annoying to hear that C-D is a race track, that there are  more and more people driving recklessly. But if you don't start from these statement you can't start any process to solve the problems which then lead to improvements/changes suggestions. And the more data (i.e. survey results) you have to work on the problems, the more chances you have to get to efficient suggestions/solutions.

None of what you are saying is relevant to the topic.

 

The survey mentioned server configuration and people immediately jumped to the conclusion that TruckersMP will turn into a 150 KPH race track.

 

This is a baseless assumptions and not an attempt at trying to solve an issue, or trying to figure out what a problem might be.

Kind regards,

partyaap

 

Driver - Bruijn Logistics

 

 Rules | Knowledge Base | SupportFeedbackRecruitmentNews | Events | Staff Team

 

*Views and opinions expressed are my own and do not represent anything or anyone else.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

None of what you are saying is relevant to the topic.

I disagree.

 

48 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

The survey mentioned server configuration and people immediately jumped to the conclusion that TruckersMP will turn into a 150 KPH race track.

Wrong. The current survey is about "Game Moderation" and the next one (not published yet) is about "server configuration". And the next one will be about "The forum as a community platform". Not just "Server configuration".

As far as I understand the "game moderation" survey, is asking if moderation is well done, good enough etc... And part of the problems game moderation is trying to solve is "reckless driving". And many person think that driving at 110+Km/h on countryside roads is indeed reckless driving and looks more like racing than simulation.

And people consider that if we change the "server settings" to allow higher speed limits, it will become even more a racing environment. You might not agree with it. But I don't see why this is not relevant to the topic. Before making a setting change it might be interesting to understand what people think if we change it in one direction or another?

 

48 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

This is a baseless assumptions and not an attempt at trying to solve an issue, or trying to figure out what a problem might be.

I explained it many times in my previous posts. If you don't make assumptions you can't work on suggestions/solutions. And the more data you have the least assumptions you will make, and the better suggestions/solutions you will provide.

 

You should ask for public visibility of survey results instead of complaining that people are making "baseless assumptions".

 

BTW you didn't answer to my reply about the reports. Is that again a "baseless assumption" that we have problems (shown by all these reports)? And isn't the subject of reports part of "Game Moderation"?! Or am I again off-topic?

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2 hours ago, StateCA [NL] said:

The survey mentioned server configuration and people immediately jumped to the conclusion that TruckersMP will turn into a 150 KPH race track.

The blog post mentioned: "Furthermore, we have received much feedback about our server configuration, particularly with regards to the server speed limits we enforce on the Simulation servers".

 

Tell me, what kind of feedbacks do you think are being received, particularly with regards to the server speed limits? I'm pretty sure that it's not 50/50 asking to lower/raise those limits. "Users panel" members (and the "users panel" was mentioned in the blog post too) have said in Discord that the speed limits on highways are likely to be changed, is it really believable that these limits would be lowered?

 

So, what assumptions could we make, other than that the possibility of raising speed limits is being taken into consideration? And seeing that now TruckersMP is mostly a 110 KPH race track, if the limits were raised to 110+ KPH, it's only logical to assume that it would become a 110+ KPH race track.

 

And BTW, making assumptions has nothing to do with solving problems. I only shared my opinion about the topic, wasn't trying to solve anything. I didn't even think that we were supposed to solve things with our comments.

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6 hours ago, Foobrother said:

Well, I could reply that this is also an "assumption" 😉

 

6 hours ago, Foobrother said:

Yes it's annoying to hear that C-D is a race track, that there are  more and more people driving recklessly.

 

6 hours ago, Foobrother said:

Because you think there is a week delay on the reporting system because people love each other and don't have anything to complain about when playing?!

I think, if there is such an amount of reports it's not because the staff is slow or not enough, but because there are looooooots of problems.

 

 

Interesting, you know the "looooooots of problems", and you know that "more and more people driving recklessly", then prove this statements with numbers,statistics, personal experience within the staff or some data, otherwise you assuming again and again like others; you mentioning "assumption" because you learned recently this new word and you keep repeating it, but you have no idea what is it since you keep doing it,

 

These are just random statemets without any basis = assuming/no sense/trolling/baiting

 

I'm sure you have nothing like many others, so good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Foobrother said:

But if you don't start from these statement you can't start any process to solve the problems which then lead to improvements/changes suggestions. And the more data (i.e. survey results) you have to work on the problems, the more chances you have to get to efficient suggestions/solutions.

 

 

The management of truckers mp does not exist right? Do you think before you write or do you write just for the sake of it? What you think they do?

 

You also have forgotten that this is not a survey to solve problems. You are the one creating the problems, and you don't even realize it 🤣

 

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14 minutes ago, FernandoCR [ESP] said:

Tell me, what kind of feedbacks do you think are being received, particularly with regards to the server speed limits? I'm pretty sure that it's not 50/50 asking to lower/raise those limits. "Users panel" members (and the "users panel" was mentioned in the blog post too) have said in Discord that the speed limits on highways are likely to be changed, is it really believable that these limits would be lowered?

 

 

If you only listen to those who assume, you will always end up assuming. 

 

 

17 minutes ago, FernandoCR [ESP] said:

The blog post mentioned: "Furthermore, we have received much feedback about our server configuration, particularly with regards to the server speed limits we enforce on the Simulation servers".

 

It doesn't mean anything, it's just information. It is not TMP's fault if you assume/think/believe different things. Just wait the end of this survey and official announcements. The rest doesn't matter.

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26 minutes ago, _raffaele_ said:

you mentioning "assumption" because you learned recently this new word and you keep repeating it, but you have no idea what is it since you keep doing it,

These are just random statemets without any basis = assuming/no sense/trolling/baiting

Careful. I've tried to be polite and patient with you (which was very hard) trying to explain my view but there are limits. Insulting people isn't correct. Please remain respectful. 

I'll stop there with you.

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3 hours ago, Foobrother said:

But I don't see why this is not relevant to the topic. Before making a setting change it might be interesting to understand what people think if we change it in one direction or another?

 

You don't know what will be in the next survey, how you know there will not be the questions to your concerns? Again we assume?

 

 

3 hours ago, Foobrother said:

If you don't make assumptions you can't work on suggestions/solutions.

 

Nothing more false, you don't have to make assumptions to find solutions/suggestions.

 

3 hours ago, Foobrother said:

You should ask for public visibility of survey results instead of complaining that people are making "baseless assumptions".

 

 

Again, you don't know whether these results will be published or not, how much do you want to continue?

 

8 minutes ago, Foobrother said:

Careful. I've tried to be polite and patient with you (which was very hard) trying to explain my view but there are limits. Insulting people isn't correct. Please remain respectful. 

I'll stop there with you.

 

Don't play the victim, it's the truth. I don't see any insults. I am waiting for your evidences. You stop because you don't have the answers 🤣

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5 hours ago, Foobrother said:

I disagree.

 

Wrong. The current survey is about "Game Moderation" and the next one (not published yet) is about "server configuration". And the next one will be about "The forum as a community platform". Not just "Server configuration".

As far as I understand the "game moderation" survey, is asking if moderation is well done, good enough etc... And part of the problems game moderation is trying to solve is "reckless driving". And many person think that driving at 110+Km/h on countryside roads is indeed reckless driving and looks more like racing than simulation.

And people consider that if we change the "server settings" to allow higher speed limits, it will become even more a racing environment. You might not agree with it. But I don't see why this is not relevant to the topic. Before making a setting change it might be interesting to understand what people think if we change it in one direction or another?

 

I explained it many times in my previous posts. If you don't make assumptions you can't work on suggestions/solutions. And the more data you have the least assumptions you will make, and the better suggestions/solutions you will provide.

 

You should ask for public visibility of survey results instead of complaining that people are making "baseless assumptions".

 

BTW you didn't answer to my reply about the reports. Is that again a "baseless assumption" that we have problems (shown by all these reports)? And isn't the subject of reports part of "Game Moderation"?! Or am I again off-topic?

There are many reports, yes. But they are not all about "racing".

 

They are literally asking the public for their opinion. And in the forum post (this thread) people are drawing the conclusion 'oh the blog post said X so Y must be happening, how bad!' regarding the server speedlimit.

 

There is no reason to go down that route other than to be dramatic.

Kind regards,

partyaap

 

Driver - Bruijn Logistics

 

 Rules | Knowledge Base | SupportFeedbackRecruitmentNews | Events | Staff Team

 

*Views and opinions expressed are my own and do not represent anything or anyone else.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

There are many reports, yes. But they are not all about "racing".

As someone who was part of the Game Moderation team I would have expected more details than just "they are not all about "racing"".

Of course you can report many things. But I would be very surprised if the majority of the report were not about "Collision" and "Reckless Driving". After we can argue about what "racing" means in a game where you're supposed to follow speed limits, traffic lights, road signage, etc...

 

6 minutes ago, StateCA [NL] said:

They are literally asking the public for their opinion. And in the forum post (this thread) people are drawing the conclusion 'oh the blog post said X so Y must be happening, how bad!' regarding the server speedlimit.

 

There is no reason to go down that route other than to be dramatic.

Well. as I said several time already, people from TMP should share clearly their view on where they want to go or not, set some boundaries, give some opinions, share data, and we wouldn't have people making assumptions.

I'm like you, I prefer working/discussing about facts rather than vague or limited information. But it's not because there isn't much information available that people shouldn't discuss option A, B, C etc... and share their believe.

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9 hours ago, Foobrother said:

Well. as I said several time already, people from TMP should share clearly their view on where they want to go or not, set some boundaries, give some opinions, share data, and we wouldn't have people making assumptions.

 

You said several times wrong, people already share they view, an example is this post and comments or on other many comunications ways that TMP have. All you listed can be done also via surveys, like it's happening and happened in the past, so you keep talking no sense. I'm curious to see how long you gonna continue on this path.

 

You can share your opinions/suggestions without the need of assuming, it's easy, just learn to do it.

 

 

9 hours ago, Foobrother said:

I'm like you, I prefer working/discussing about facts rather than vague or limited information.

 

This is funny, until now you have done the exact opposite, where is my evidence from the last answer? 🤣

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Foobrother said:

But it's not because there isn't much information available that people shouldn't discuss option A, B, C etc... and share their believe.

 

There is freedom of speech, indeed people are sharing the opinions and toughts also under this post, what's the point? You can find the informations you are looking for on your own, all available if you are looking for them; indeed most of your comments are based on not many informations and you still discussed your options, you trolling right?

 

But if you believe something, that TMP never said or announced, that is your problem, not TMP foult.

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On 2/13/2023 at 7:36 PM, Jeronimο said:

An another note, the discussion in this topic appears to be very black-and-white and thinking in extremes, as if there are only two categories of players: simulation-minded players and arcade-minded players. In reality there are several shades of either. Within the spectrum of simulation-minded players, for example, you can have casual players that do enjoy collisions and enforcement of rules but would like to have freedom to also be playful; and on the other hand you can have 'hardcore' simulation players that expect everyone to stop at every red light and adhere to every local speed limit. The extremes in our community are the latter, 'hardcore' simulators, and those that are identified as racers or NFS/GTA players, while I believe the vast majority is in between: players that enjoy structure and order to an extent, but don't want to be overly 'serious' but rather play casually. As most players tend to go to the most populated server, no server will always meet everyone's needs or wishes, as an one-size-fits-all solution does not exist.


I'd kindly remind you that it was the TruckersMP team who categorized its community in a black-and-white manner in the first place, by providing a simulation server and an arcade server to choose from:

"We have decided that we want to put a greater emphasis on the simulation side of things and really bring the game and mod back to the roots of creating a simulation or arcade environment for all of our players to choose from."

(Source: Road To Simulation)

 

Naturally, there were and are more facets than only simulation and arcade, but these had to be subordinated.

Nevertheless, I agree to your statement that no multiplayer game will ever fully satisfy the needs of every single player, and TruckersMP won't be an exception.

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14 hours ago, Foobrother said:

As someone who was part of the Game Moderation team I would have expected more details than just "they are not all about "racing"".

Of course you can report many things. But I would be very surprised if the majority of the report were not about "Collision" and "Reckless Driving". After we can argue about what "racing" means in a game where you're supposed to follow speed limits, traffic lights, road signage, etc...

 

Well. as I said several time already, people from TMP should share clearly their view on where they want to go or not, set some boundaries, give some opinions, share data, and we wouldn't have people making assumptions.

I'm like you, I prefer working/discussing about facts rather than vague or limited information. But it's not because there isn't much information available that people shouldn't discuss option A, B, C etc... and share their believe.

I'd love to give more details about the nature of the reports. But I am not sure what exactly I am allowed to say about it.

Kind regards,

partyaap

 

Driver - Bruijn Logistics

 

 Rules | Knowledge Base | SupportFeedbackRecruitmentNews | Events | Staff Team

 

*Views and opinions expressed are my own and do not represent anything or anyone else.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Foobrother said:

Of course you can report many things. But I would be very surprised if the majority of the report were not about "Collision" and "Reckless Driving". After we can argue about what "racing" means in a game where you're supposed to follow speed limits, traffic lights, road signage, etc...

 

Racing is not speeding and vice versa.

One might define and distinguish both only by certain criteria and evidence, but even then it might not be clear.


In general, a street race is always an act of reckless driving, while speeding is only defined as reckless if evidence supports a wanting disregard of others and the traffic road laws.

For example, one might not be aware of a reduced speed limit and continous to travel at the previous higher speed limit, which would be not intentional.

 

The difficult part for a game moderator is to determine (with help of valid evidence) which kind of offense actually has happened.

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Even when it didn't go into details about the nature of the infractions, and it's a bit old, this post published in Jan 2022 can give you an idea of what the GM team has to deal with: https://truckersmp.com/blog/264 It could also be used, I'd guess, as the "evidence" that another user was requesting about the lots of problems that overload the report system.

 

EDIT: This was for @Foobrother, sorry that I forgot to tag before.

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2 hours ago, blabberbeak said:

 

Racing is not speeding and vice versa.

One might define and distinguish both only by certain criteria and evidence, but even then it might not be clear.


In general, a street race is always an act of reckless driving, while speeding is only defined as reckless if evidence supports a wanting disregard of others and the traffic road laws.

For example, one might not be aware of a reduced speed limit and continuous to travel at the previous higher speed limit, which would be not intentional.

 

The difficult part for a game moderator is to determine (with help of valid evidence) which kind of offense actually has happened.

I agree. Even if "racing" in the world of vehicles is linked to speed (I can't find an example of vehicle racing which is not about arriving as fast as possible).

However I understand your example. Still I can see all the time people not slowing down or doing last minute emergency braking even if they see from far away that they are entering a dangerous/busy zone where speed limits are lower. Why? They want to arrive faster?

If you prefer we could change the word "racing" by "sport driving" which isn't really a concept when driving a truck normally (except in truck racing). In real life driving a truck in a sporty way = dangerous and irresponsible (reckless)

 

1 hour ago, FernandoCR [ESP] said:

Even when it didn't go into details about the nature of the infractions, and it's a bit old, this post published in Jan 2022 can give you an idea of what the GM team has to deal with: https://truckersmp.com/blog/264 It could also be used, I'd guess, as the "evidence" that another user was requesting about the lots of problems that overload the report system.

 

EDIT: This was for @Foobrother, sorry that I forgot to tag before.

Thanks for sharing that post. I actually remembered it during our discussion on this thread. But couldn't remember anything about the split of types of reports. Now I know why 😂

It's a shame it was just including stats on the number of reports/appeals etc... Better than nothing, but hard to understand what's really happening in-game (mainly collisions? or just people blocking? which area? etc...). We can only assume 😆

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@FernandoCR [ESP]

@Foobrother

 

They’re not relevant, because those numbers don’t prove anything about what the other user said. You can find out by simply reading that blog and his last answers.

 

In addition to the numbers in quantity, nothing is explained about the problems and reasons of why those numbers, or how things go in the staff; apart from the pandemic that brought more traffic. I don’t even see the reckless drivers in that post, whether they have increased or not, or numbers that prove it.


In addition, almost 2 years have passed since those numbers, and overall the number of players has dropped after the pandemic’s restrictions were slowly coming to an end; plus the convoy mode that came out in the summer of 2021. The first 6/7 months of 2021 (the year to which the data refer) have greatly influenced the data released; the trend has stabilized from September 2021 onwards:

 

image.png.e6f2bb97c7dab0df37fbe0ceea6532e2.png

 

Until we have a more updated data on the trend that has stabilized from September 21 onwards, and remained so in 2022, they worth what they worth; this data/numbers can be taken to make examples, but nothing more

 

 

I appreciate the effort anyway, i hope for something more

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16 hours ago, Foobrother said:

I agree. Even if "racing" in the world of vehicles is linked to speed (I can't find an example of vehicle racing which is not about arriving as fast as possible).

However I understand your example. Still I can see all the time people not slowing down or doing last minute emergency braking even if they see from far away that they are entering a dangerous/busy zone where speed limits are lower. Why? They want to arrive faster?

If you prefer we could change the word "racing" by "sport driving" which isn't really a concept when driving a truck normally (except in truck racing). In real life driving a truck in a sporty way = dangerous and irresponsible (reckless)

 

No doubt, racing has a competitive character and often depends on a time to distance ratio. It's purpose can be to outgain and/ or outdistance something/ somebody, and can be accompanied by blocking others and/ or sudden and aggressive lane changes.

Racing doesn't need a physical opponent, which makes it difficult to distinguish from speeding.

 

Thanksfully, game rules §2.5 defines both as Reckless Driving:

Quote

Driving in such a way that is considered unsafe and that puts other players in danger. This includes but is not limited to: driving backwards, ignoring traffic lights or road signage, speeding, speeding up to prevent overtakes, racing other users (except in Tucson, Phoenix, and Södertälje (ProMods) racetracks). Driving outside of the map boundaries or in areas that are not covered by the mini map/GPS. Hidden roads which are intentionally part of the map are not included. You can use these roads. In ProMods, you can drive on unlocked roads or paths. Attempting to use desync lag or quick saves in order to cause damage to another user's vehicle. Using the ghost mode feature to go through traffic jams.

 

IImpatience can lead to reckless driving bahaviors, including inappropriate overtaking maneuvers in congested areas, which might be an answer to why players sometimes ignore the  actual traffic situation and endanger others and themselves.

 

My simple advise is to stay alert, be aware of the traffic situation and act in a way that doesn't harm or endanger others.

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