Traffic signs at this intersection near Duisburg make no sense

[partyaap]

5 minutes ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

@StateCA (NL)I would be merging, if there was main road sign on the taffic island, it's still part of the intersection, doesnt matter how big the traffic island is... People coming from duisburg are not on the main road, because there is no main road sign.

If you aren't merging then why is there a yield sign for you? And a dotted line on your road? Have you ever seen a dotted line and a yield sign on a priority road? What you are saying doesn't make sense.

 

There isn't 1 intersection here. There are two. https://prnt.sc/yysr4o

 

On intersection 1 you have priority, yes. But you are on intersection 2. Your lane is merging onto the other road. You have a dotted line and a yield sign.

 

The exact purpose of the traffic island is to seperate the two intersections. Even the road markins that show you are in a turning lane proves that you are not oncoming traffic. You don't turn from the oncoming traffic lane. You turn from the turn lane. And as such, you have to yield.

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

Yes, that would make sense, BUT you need to have main road sign before the intersection and there is not any. How does the red truck know he doesnt have to yield?

[partyaap]

9 minutes ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

Yes, that would make sense, BUT you need to have main road sign before the intersection and there is not any. How does the red truck know he doesnt have to yield?

The red truck has a priority road sign: https://prnt.sc/yytv5y

 

Signs are placed after intersections in Europe when outside the city limits.

 

I made another screenshot for clarification: https://prnt.sc/yyu0gx

 

If you were to turn right in the green lane. Then you'd have priority as oncoming traffic. But you are turning from the red lane, and the oncoming traffic rule doesn't apply to you anymore (the arrows on the road show this).

 

I hope this helps. And things like this is exactly why the old parts of the map are in desperate need of a re-work, haha.

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

1 minute ago, StateCA (NL) said:

The red truck has a priority road sign: https://prnt.sc/yytv5y

 

This sign is after the intersection → doesnt affect the intersection

Main road sign must be always placed before the intersection and if it's really 2 intersections, there should be second main road sign (main road after the intersection is there to define the main road for further intersection(s), so this one doesnt count).

[partyaap]

4 minutes ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

 

This sign is after the intersection → doesnt affect the intersection

Main road sign must be always placed before the intersection and if it's really 2 intersections, there should be second main road sign (main road after the intersection is there to define the main road for further intersection(s), so this one doesnt count).

It does affect the intersection. Like I said, they are placed after the intersection outside city limits this is on purpose because it helps drivers understand where they are and what the road rules are regarding the speedlimit.

 

In Germany the default speedlimit outside city limits is 100kph. The sign after the intersection shows you are outside the city, therefore the speedlimit is 100kph. Which is exactly why there is a speedlimit sign stating it's 80kph behind it. (because it has been reduced from default).

 

That priority sign does affect the intersection and is the reason why the red truck has priority.

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

You are right, thank you. I didnt know about this german taffic rule. Now is everything clear.

 

https://www.frag-den-fahrlehrer.de/2017/04/19/vorfahrtstraße/

"Außerhalb geschlossener Ortschaften steht es hinter den Kreuzungen und ist auch etwas größer als innerorts."

[partyaap]

2 minutes ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

You are right, thank you. I didnt know about this german taffic rule. Now is everything clear.

 

https://www.frag-den-fahrlehrer.de/2017/04/19/vorfahrtstraße/

"Außerhalb geschlossener Ortschaften steht es hinter den Kreuzungen und ist auch etwas größer als innerorts."

It should still need a re-work anyway. That part of the map is quite old. And in multiplayer people dont care about the rules xd

[Interstate Nomad]

17 hours ago, StateCA (NL) said:

In Germany the default speedlimit outside city limits is 100kph.

 

That is only half of the truth.

 

The default speed limit in Germany outside city limits depends on the type of vehicle classification (if not explicitly stated otherwise by signage).

 

100kph is for passenger vehicles and other vehicles up to 3,5 tons.

 

80kph is vehicles between 3,5 and 7 tons, for passenger vehicles with trailer, trucks and motor homes up to 3,5 tons with trailer and busses also with luggage trailer.

 

60kph is for vehicles above 7,5 tons, passenger vehicles above 3,5 tons with trailer and busses with passengers without an available seat.

 

[partyaap]

4 hours ago, Joao Rodrigues said:

 

That is only half of the truth.

 

The default speed limit in Germany outside city limits depends on the type of vehicle classification (if not explicitly stated otherwise by signage).

 

100kph is for passenger vehicles and other vehicles up to 3,5 tons.

 

80kph is vehicles between 3,5 and 7 tons, for passenger vehicles with trailer, trucks and motor homes up to 3,5 tons with trailer and busses also with luggage trailer.

 

60kph is for vehicles above 7,5 tons, passenger vehicles above 3,5 tons with trailer and busses with passengers without an available seat.

 

Yes, I was refering to passenger vehicles because they are the targeted group for the signs.

[Alex-Vrtrx]

After reading this thread Im gonna state my opinion too.

FYI Im German and have a driving license. This obviously doesnt mean that my opinion is always right, I just think its important that I should mention something like that.

 

So my opinion is: The red truck has to give way to oncoming traffic. Thats the basic rule here in Germany if you are turning left.

After that Im not sure if you can 100% say that the red truck is already on the main/priority road while passing the small traffic island but it doesnt even matter because YOU have a sign telling you to wait and give way!

If the red truck is already turning cause there is no oncoming traffic on the straight lane YOU have to give way to the red truck cause YOU have a sign telling you exactly that. You are merging into the "new" road and YOU have an obvious sign telling you to give way.

This only applies if the red truck is already turning. If its still waiting because of oncoming traffic you obviously dont have to wait for him to start turning (since the red truck wouldnt be on the "new" road yet).

 

Im not 100000% sure if this is 1000000% right (as I said at the top) but because of the way this intersection is formed the road from the right starts/ends with the small island. Those right turning lanes are just an "addon" to make it easier to turn right and to make it less congested.

(Edit: Those "addons" are fairly common here in Germany but you mostly see them with roundabouts. On the route I drive a lot IRL there is this sort of "addon turning lane" on a roundabout and at the end theres a sign telling you to give way too. Picture shows the road Im talking about.)

his does not mean that its already a priority road!! The priority road starts with the sign telling you its a priority road! This doesnt change the fact that its already a "new" road though!!

And because YOU are trying to merge into that "new" road and because there is a sign clearly telling you to give way to vehicles already on that road YOU have to wait and give way to the red truck IF it is already turning and therefore is already on that "new" road.

It wouldnt even make sense if it was the other way around cause the red truck would block the intersection if it would have to give way to you (since the red truck would be allowed to drive to the edge of the small island and therefore would block the intersection if it had to give way to you now)

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

@Alex-Vrtrx I agree with you. This intersection is very confusing.

 

This intersection is literally 

 

[[S.PLH]Warrior]

The signs does makes sense actually cuz you are leaving the main road.

 

Yes the red truck must give way to the traffic that comes from opposite direction. 

So when you approach the intersection to go right you can make that turn without giving way to the red truck, while he is waiting there.

 

unless the red truck is already moving to left onto the C-D road and you approach to go right at the intersection you must then give way to the red truck.

That is how it works.

 

1) Truck at intersection waiting you can go to right first.

2) truck driving onto C-D road you must give way to him.

 

There is no need to wait for him if he still waits at the intersection, then you stop without a reason and stopping the flow.

 

[JasonO]

I think the confusion is considering this as one junction, when actually it's two junctions that due to scale and design very close to each other.

 

If you are in the two lanes going straight on then I think we all agree red truck there waiting to turn left gives way to you.

Once they have commited through that junction they have then joined a new road. This becomes the main road for them and therefore have right of way.

 

The vehicles approaching the right turn lane that is joining onto that new main road must check left and give way to the red truck or whatever else is already on it.

 

I think the junction is award based on the speeds and the way people drive in ETS2. The truck turning left will probably take caution and stop if they see a vehicle coming towards them and may hesitate until they're satisfied they are taking that right turn lane. By the time that happens the truck turning left will probably not cross the road before the other vehicle reaches that yield point and will probably go straight through. Based on the speed that red truck could be approaching it maybe safe to do that. But if there are further trucks behind them they should not procede if that red truck is now on that new road and carrying speed that would see them colide with any further vehicles pulling out.

[Interstate Nomad]

4 hours ago, [S.PLH]Warrior said:

There is no need to wait for him if he still waits at the intersection, then you stop without a reason and stopping the flow.

 

Participation in road traffic requires constant caution and mutual consideration.
Every road traffic participant is therefore perfectly entitled to stop whenever the road situation is not clear.
To avoid stopping the flow of traffic is NOT a valid reason at all.

[Granite [SVK]]

But, there is main road sign, not on the island but after the side road (your lane) - just check 3rd pic in my first post. Anyway it doesn't matter, since there is yield sign in front of you, and you can't just ignore it. 

 

[Guest]

On 2/14/2021 at 12:27 PM, Granite said:

But, there is main road sign, not on the island but after the side road (your lane) - just check 3rd pic in my first post. Anyway it doesn't matter, since there is yield sign in front of you, and you can't just ignore it. 

 

 

Thats True. When we are on the  main road with priority the red trucks should wait for us. But when we decide to turn right and enter that junction with the island and give way sign. Then IF the red trucks is clear  and once cross the main road and enters that small section he is with priority...

I'am real world driver, and the signs at this junction are fine.

 

And as original poster said

Quote

At this point we are giving way eachother.

Is it me or something is very wrong here?

 

Here you need to use common sense. If you see the red truck is still staying and waiting to cross the road. Then you can go ahead pass the Giveway sign. It is that simple, if you see that you wont take somebody's right of way you can go . I think @ASIR [CZE] is just confused about road sections.

So because the red truck is waiting in his give way section, you can GO, he is waiting for a reason to give way to somebody else. He is not in your section of the road yet. If he was in your section or if he was coming with high speed and you can't  enter the road without cutting him then you have to wait... like i said it commons sense. When driving in real world you should know your vehicle limits and your limits. How quick and fast you can start moving so you can able to decide when to enter junctions with Give way signs...

[ItsHarryUK]

This is very very useful information for current players and new beginners in the community of TruckersMP.

 

- Harry

[Nicоlás]

Thanks for all this information, it will be very useful for many new players! 

[Snap Dragon]

Hello @ASIR [CZE],

 

I'm moving your topic to the Archive section because of your topic inactive for 2 weeks(14 days), because every day lots of new topics are creating and now the community wants to discuss a new discussion. We apply these procedures to keep the forum organized and active in this way.

 

If you have any questions, feel free to DM me.

 

//Locked & Moved to Archive