Traffic signs at this intersection near Duisburg make no sense

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

Hi,

 

This is an intersection near Duisburg, part of the Calais-Duisburg road and I think some traffic signs are missing here.

 

 

 

From my POV I have to give way to the red truck coming from Duisburg, due to the the "Give way sign".

 

Quote

 

But on the other hand, the red truck has to give way when turning left across the path of an oncoming vehicle at an intersection. At this point we are giving way eachother.

Is it me or something is very wrong here?

 

This situation could be solved either by removing the "Give way" sign, or adding a "Hauptstraße/ main road sign" on the road island for the traffic coming from Duisburg and turning left and making it a intersection in intersection. (explained by images below)

 

Traffic island doesn't automatically mean new intersection

 

Quote

 

Tell me your opinions. If you were traffic engineers, what would you do?

 

Regards,

//ASIR

[Granite [SVK]]

No, this is perfectly fine and sensible design, the yield sign is for right turn lane only, the red truck still need to give way for traffing passing straight, but of course hardly anyone around these parts gives a flying damn.

This is meant to aid left turning or traffic crossing the priority road. I know similar intersection from real life: https://goo.gl/maps/dW3jTohPhGMMEMPr6

 

You have also probably overlooked couple of road signs (maybe they are covered with snow?), which make perfectly clear, which direction has priority:

Priority to through-traffic at the next intersection

 

End of Priority Road

 

Priority Road - this is for that red truck when he turns left, so he knows clearly who has priority, the sign is placed further away behind the intersection for lack of room.

 

One more example - this prefab or the one little bit updated with better textures is extensively used all over the old parts of the map, one is just outside Calais, but this is in Brno. Check the right turn lane, of course nobody bloody gives a damn about yield signs:

[Guest]

From your perspective, you are going to merge into a road, merging traffic always has to give priority (excluding exceptions like manual traffic control). The people coming from Duisburg turning left into the c-d road are the ones that are going to be on the road in the first hand. First come first served. But of course what i said is not what's going on there because 90% of people going to c-d road are for some reason in an extreme hurry to drive through congested traffic as if they have tunnel vision.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Granite said:

Hayır, bu son derece ince ve mantıklı bir tasarım, verim işareti yalnızca sağa dönüş şeridi içindir, kırmızı kamyonun yine de düz geçen trafiğe yol vermesi gerekir, ancak elbette bu parçaların etrafındaki hiç kimse uçup gidemez.

Bu, sola dönüş veya öncelikli yoldan geçen trafiğe yardımcı olmak içindir. Gerçek hayattan benzer bir kesişme olduğunu biliyorum:  https://goo.gl/maps/dW3jTohPhGMMEMPr6

 

Muhtemelen birkaç yol işaretini de gözden kaçırdınız (belki karla kaplı olabilirler?), Bunlar tamamen netleşir, hangi yönün önceliği vardır:

Bir sonraki kavşakta trafiğe öncelik

 

Öncelikli Yolun Sonu

 

Öncelikli Yol  - bu, sola döndüğünde o kırmızı kamyon içindir, böylece kimin önceliği olduğunu açıkça bilir, işaret yer yetersizliğinden kavşağın daha uzağına yerleştirilir.

 

Bir örnek daha - bu prefabrik veya daha iyi dokularla güncellenmiş olan biraz haritanın tüm eski kısımlarında yaygın olarak kullanılıyor, biri Calais'in hemen dışında, ancak burası Brno'da. Sağdaki dönüş şeridini kontrol edin, tabii ki hiç kimse verim işaretlerini umursamıyor:

I Agree With You.

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

@Granite @Ouskiller.

But that doesnt change anything, this just shows its part of the intersection.

People coming from Duisburg have to give way to the ONCOMING traffic when crossing. (going straight and turning left).

Your argument he has priority when turning left would make sense, if there was the MAIN ROAD sign...

 

 

 

https://goo.gl/maps/dW3jTohPhGMMEMPr6

And this intersection is totally fine, because the give way sigh tells you to give way people coming from left, not oncoming traffic turning left... Things would,ve been different with "Main Road sign" on the traffic island.

If this wasnt the T type of intersection, but X type, then it'd be fine.

 

This is how properly designed intersection should look like, because drivers from duisburg are not on main road:

[Granite [SVK]]

1 hour ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

But that doesnt change anything, this just shows its part of the intersection.

People coming from Duisburg have to give way to the ONCOMING traffic when crossing. (going straight and turning left).

Your argument he has priority when turning left would make sense, if there was the MAIN ROAD sign...

I don't know what's not clear. If you were going straight, then they would need to give way, but as you are truning right, they see you in the right turn lane and your turn signal, they can turn left and you need to give way to them, because that's what the signage indicates - the priority sign is there, check the third picture, it's not on the island but shifted back between the yield sign telling you to give way and the speed limit sign further behind the intersection - it's not visible on your original picture because but it's just off the right edge of the screenshot. Placing priority signs like that, behind the side road is commonly seen anywhere in Scandinavia DLC, here it's because that island is too small and there's already lot of other signs there.  The only problem here is that just about everyone is approaching this intersection way too fast - it's 60km/h speed limit for trucks, so you don't have a chance to react properly, because you can't even spot turn signals in the event someone is actually using them.  

 

1 hour ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

https://goor6.gl/maps/dW3jTohPhGMMEMP

And this intersection is totally fine, because the give way sigh tells you to give way people coming from left, not oncoming traffic turning left... Things would,ve been different with "Main Road sign" on the traffic island.

If this wasnt the T type of intersection, but X type, then it'd be fine.

Yes, it tells you to give way to traffic coming from your left, but they can be coming form the side road on the left and also oncoming traffic that turns left, so it's the same situation, but here the priority road sign is absent because, I guess authorities thought that the yield sign is clearly visible for anyone - a common mistake around my area.

 

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

 

12 minutes ago, Granite said:

Yes, it tells you to give way to traffic coming from your left, but they can be coming form the side road on the left and also oncoming traffic that turns left,

No! Even at your IRL example, you have the right of way, if the oncoming vehicle turns left. No matter the give way sign. The give way sign is just to give way to cars coming from left.

 

So you are saying red color would go first? (main road is forward)

 

[Granite [SVK]]

@ASIR [CZE] Yes, in both real life example and in-game situation, red color goes first if they are already turning left and not just approaching and slowing for the turn or waiting for oncoming traffic that may be aproaching behind orange color, because road signage, but this picture is too simplified to only single lane.

If the yield sign wasn't there it would be other way around, and of course red will give way if orange goes straight.

 

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

I am on the main road, why should I give way to anyone? There is no one coming from left, because its not X type intersection. The yield sign is there for no reason, I still have right of way from the oncoming traffic when turning right.

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

As you can see in the article below... Vehicle A has the right-of-way, and vehicle B must yield to vehicle A or any other vehicle following vehicle A.

 

 

https://routetogermany.com/drivingingermany/right-of-way

 

 

When you are coming from Duisburg, to get the right of way, you would need this sign, but there isn't any.

 

Quote

 

[Truckers / 3D]

After playing truckersmp  for such a long time, only a small number of truck drivers will notice these signs. The rest are against the rules  .

[Dubbeledraaideur [NL]]

Signs go above the give way rule, as traffic lights go above signs.

So in this case, you need to let the red truck go first.
 

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

7 minutes ago, Dubbeledraaideur [NL] said:

Signs go above the give way rule, as traffic lights go above signs.

So in this case, you need to let the red truck go first.
 

 

In this case I am deprived of way, but the other side is also... oncoming traffic has no sign telling them they are allowed to go first.

[Dubbeledraaideur [NL]]

1 minute ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

 

In this case I am deprived of way, but the other side is also... oncoming traffic has no sign telling then they are allowed to go first.

 

If you would approach this intersection real life, and in the same situation. Would you then not yield and go for it? 
And if then a collision occurs, are you going to say, "yes I had a give way sign but he didn't had a priority sign. So then the giveway rule applies".

I don't think that would stick haha

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

Just now, Dubbeledraaideur [NL] said:

 

If you would approach this intersection real life, and in the same situation. Would you then not yield and go for it? 
And if then a collision occurs, are you going to say, "yes I had a give way sign but he didn't had a priority sign. So then the giveway rule applies".

I don't think that would stick haha

That's why I created this thread. For example, I am coming from Duisburg and wanna turn left. What tells me not to give way to the oncoming traffic turning right?

[Dubbeledraaideur [NL]]

4 minutes ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

That's why I created this thread. For example, I am coming from Duisburg and wanna turn left. What tells me not to give way to the oncoming traffic turning right?

 

That leads to a awkward situation, where both vehicles are in a stand-off, which goes first.
Most likely the vehicle coming from Duisburg, would give way.

 

But in eyes of the law, if the vehicle from Duisburg would go first, and the other vehicle would also go and they would collide.  The one with the giveway sign is at fault 

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

7 minutes ago, Dubbeledraaideur [NL] said:

 

That leads to a awkward situation, where both vehicles are in a stand-off, which goes first.
Most likely the vehicle coming from Duisburg, would give way.

 

But in eyes of the law, if the vehicle from Duisburg would go first, and the other vehicle would also go and they would collide.  The one with the giveway sign is at fault 

 

Not at all, they both would be at fault, the one coming from duisburg failed to follow the rule in video below and the other driver failed to yield.

 

[Dubbeledraaideur [NL]]

5 minutes ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

 

Not at all, they both would be at fault, the one coming from duisburg failed to follow the rule in video below and the other driver failed to yield.

 

In that video they both have giveway signs. And the intersection is without exit lanes.
So in my eyes, it is a different situation of the screenshot.
The intersection you showed a screenshot of, has exit lanes. And the exitlane has a giveway sign, to merge into the road to Brussel.

 

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

It's still one intersection and this rule applies here also, doesnt matter how big the traffic island is or how many lanes there are. NO sign tells the cars coming from duisburg to NOT yield when turning. The problem is I am coming on a main road, but there is a yield sign, before that sign my main road has to be ended by a sign.

[Interstate Nomad]

16 hours ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

But on the other hand, the red truck has to give way when turning left across the path of an oncoming vehicle at an intersection. At this point we are giving way eachother.

Is it me or something is very wrong here?

 

It is correct that you have to give way to the red truck, as indicated by the signage.
You also correctly stated that the red truck has to give way to oncoming traffic.
The latter however doesn't apply to traffic that is on the turning lane (you).
When you are on the turning lane, you have lost your priority and instead have to give way.

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

16 hours ago, Joao Rodrigues said:

When you are on the turning lane, you have lost your priority and instead have to give way.

 

No, I haven't lost my priority. I am coming on the main road. Have you ever seen a yield sign on a main road? Imagine the situation without the traffic island, maybe it will help you understand the issue, because traffic island DOES NOT mean new intersection.

[Interstate Nomad]

2 minutes ago, ASIR [CZE] said:

 

No, I haven't lost my priority. I am coming on the main road. Have you ever seen a yield sign on a main road? Imagine the situation without the traffic island, maybe it will help you understand the issue, because traffic island DOES NOT mean new intersection.

 

This is a lane specific yield sign.

It doesn't matter if there is an island.

 

You have to follow the signage which in this case states that you have to give way to cross traffic when you are on the turning lane.

The red truck only has to give way to oncoming traffic, but has way of right over traffic on the turning lane.

Being on the turning lane, you are no longer regarded as oncoming traffic.

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

That would make sense, but doesnt the red truck need main road sign on the road island to gain the right of way? Because when I come from Duisburg and turn left, I give way to all of the oncoming traffic, because no sign tells me to not yield.

[partyaap]

They do make sense. The point of view you are arguing from is just a bit misleading, in my opinion.

 

https://prnt.sc/yyrkzv

You don't stop here as if you are oncoming traffic, like you say.

 

https://prnt.sc/yyrm74

You stop here. At the dotted line marking the intersection.

 

https://prnt.sc/yyro3n

Which forces you to look out of your window to your left. Because you are not oncoming traffic. You are merging onto a new road. And you have to yield for people already on that road.

[B&Č Transport ASIR [CZE]]

@StateCA (NL)I would be merging, if there was main road sign on the taffic island, it's still part of the intersection, doesnt matter how big the traffic island is... People coming from duisburg are not on the main road, because there is no main road sign.